Women's Soccer World Cup 2019

[Wilhelmson]

No wonder I never got selected for high school hockey...

At least for men; my wife was a college captain so I'm not going to go there.

Seriously, though, when I was in I believe 10th grade the varsity coach told me I was too skinny. I was on the young side of the grade so when I was 17 years old as a senior and was 6'1" 180 lbs they were begging me to come back, partially to get my best friend to play who was a short but a beast.

The dark side of it all was the use of steroids by kids in high school, which I obviously never did since I was too skinny.

 

[crgildart]

Might as well also discuss the lawsuit about equal pay while we're on this tangent. Womens NT sells more seats than the men's NT and wins more gold. However, men give up more pro income opportunities to play on the NT because MSL men earn more and generate more revenues than MSL women. How do we reconcile the discrepancy?

 

[James]

Japan got a questionable penally call in the box. Now 2-0. VAR useless in this . Going down in the box is the weak point for soccer.

 

[Jacob]

Japan got a questionable penally call in the box. Now 2-0. VAR useless in this . Going down in the box is the weak point for soccer.

Oh yeah, we forgot to talk about that VAR no-offside call for Australia yesterday.

I completely disagree with the ref's decision. The only reason the defender went for the ball was because of the forward's run, and the forward was offside when the ball was played. Plus, the forward's run dictated the other defender's positioning as well as the one who headed the ball. I have no idea how the ref came to the conclusion that the forward wasn't influencing play.

But the same ref made an excellent decision on the VAR about the potential Australian penalty, seeing that there was a handball in the build-up.

I don't think the Brazilians deserved to win that game, and the Australians might have scored a 3rd without the OG, but I still disagree with the call.

 

[SBrown]

The problem is that it’s very difficult to change a national team’s style of play from the top down. If all of your top players grow up being taught to play one way and then you try to make them play a completely different style as adults, then they’ll struggle. So, the USSF needs to make sure that youth clubs are producing skilled, tactically smart players if they want to succeed with their new style of play.

European countries have an advantage in that they already have many decades of experience doing this on the men’s side of the game that they can transfer to the women’s side. They also have the club structure in place to seamlessly move players up through the levels from youth to professional, which they can simply expand. Also, since their professional teams are part of clubs that have men’s teams (like Arsenal, Lyon, and Atletico Madrid), they can pool resources and share facilities. So, all they really need to focus on is increasing youth participation in countries that are already mad for the game.

Well, hiring Klinsmann was supposed to help with that, but what a backfire it ended up being. I don't know, I was involved in highish-level soccer in the 80s, and we were taught the possession game in club ball. Trouble is, you end up using whatever works, and when you are winning one way, that's what you fall back on. My kids played club soccer and they were never taught a direct game.

The club structure is a thing, for sure. US Soccer has been attempting to copy it with the advent of the Development Academy and all that, but it will take time. High school sports are so entrenched in the US, but hockey obviously has done it, tennis, other sports don't develop through high school teams. It's a pull, though. My daughter's boyfriend plays for a highly ranked D1 college team, and as he had already committed by his senior year, he didn't play club ball and instead played high school since his little brother was a freshman that season (with college coach's blessing). He still says it was the absolute most fun he ever had playing soccer. And sports, mostly, are supposed to be fun.

 

[Jacob]

Well, hiring Klinsmann was supposed to help with that, but what a backfire it ended up being. I don't know, I was involved in highish-level soccer in the 80s, and we were taught the possession game in club ball. Trouble is, you end up using whatever works, and when you are winning one way, that's what you fall back on. My kids played club soccer and they were never taught a direct game.

The club structure is a thing, for sure. US Soccer has been attempting to copy it with the advent of the Development Academy and all that, but it will take time. High school sports are so entrenched in the US, but hockey obviously has done it, tennis, other sports don't develop through high school teams. It's a pull, though. My daughter's boyfriend plays for a highly ranked D1 college team, and as he had already committed by his senior year, he didn't play club ball and instead played high school since his little brother was a freshman that season (with college coach's blessing). He still says it was the absolute most fun he ever had playing soccer. And sports, mostly, are supposed to be fun.

I think the US will struggle to establish a similar club system to Europe, because the European system was established well before it became common or expected for a lot of kids to go to college, so it’s still culturally acceptable for young players to pass up on post-secondary education in order to pursue a professional career (and much cheaper for them to go back to school if they fail). But in the US, the new system has to compete against the expectation of a pursuit of higher education, especially considering the socio-economic background of so many of the players.

I’m not up to date with NCAA rules, but it seems like it would be easier to convince them to lengthen their soccer season to run for virtually the entire school year in order to keep college soccer as a relevant part of the player development process.

 

[crgildart]

I think the US will struggle to establish a similar club system to Europe, because the European system was established well before it became common or expected for a lot of kids to go to college, so it’s still culturally acceptable for young players to pass up on post-secondary education in order to pursue a professional career (and much cheaper for them to go back to school if they fail). But in the US, the new system has to compete against the expectation of a pursuit of higher education, especially considering the socio-economic background of so many of the players.

I’m not up to date with NCAA rules, but it seems like it would be easier to convince them to lengthen their soccer season to run for virtually the entire school year in order to keep college soccer as a relevant part of the player development process.

In the US, socioeconomic factors push lower income kids towards US football, basketball, and to some degree baseball. Soccer is way down the list of sports where there are opportunities for kids from low income neighborhoods to excel. But, Hispanic/Latino influence is changing that in some ares for the better.

 

[Jacob]

In the US, socioeconomic factors push lower income kids towards US football, basketball, and to some degree baseball. Soccer is way down the list of sports where there are opportunities for kids from low income neighborhoods to excel. But, Hispanic/Latino influence is changing that in some ares for the better.

That’s why I’m not sure the development academies will succeed. US soccer players still tend to come from middle and upper income families, and those parents expect their kids to go to college. Since the colleges play a 4-month season, players going to college will fall behind those at European clubs who play a 9-month season from youth to the professional level. That’s already the case on the men’s side.

So basically, something’s gotta give or the women will fall behind.

 

[James]

Well baseball economically makes the most sense. Football the least. Bankruptcy used to be close to 50% once people get out. Baseball contracts were guruanteed.

The little I've read about US coach Klinsman is he was a disaster in the end. Lack of game plans, switching all the time, players figuring things out themselves in the tunnel before the game. Then his love of German league players whether deserved or not pissed people off. Plus the whole free wheeling California image was not true. Very German. But, US Soccer sounds like USSA in it's incompetence.

Anyway, the Brazil coach was totally trashed by consensus of the players on the Fox set. Taking out Marta at half, then you're tied and you take out your #1 scorer who's hot and another forward.

 

[x10003q]

That’s why I’m not sure the development academies will succeed. US soccer players still tend to come from middle and upper income families, and those parents expect their kids to go to college. Since the colleges play a 4-month season, players going to college will fall behind those at European clubs who play a 9-month season from youth to the professional level. That’s already the case on the men’s side.

So basically, something’s gotta give or the women will fall behind.

It is not the job of the NCAA to develop pro soccer talent. If you want to be a pro, go join a club and play year around. The fact that colleges and universities are involved in sports is pretty absurd. I understand the history and tradition, but, for most schools, supporting soccer (and most other sports including football) is nothing more than a money suck.
The quickest way for the USA men to get competitive is to start recruiting better athletes away from football/basketball/baseball.

 

[Jacob]

It is not the job of the NCAA to develop pro soccer talent. If you want to be a pro, go join a club and play year around. The fact that colleges and universities are involved in sports is pretty absurd. I understand the history and tradition, but, for most schools, supporting soccer (and most other sports including football) is nothing more than a money suck.
The quickest way for the USA men to get competitive is to start recruiting better athletes away from football/basketball/baseball.

The argument about whether colleges should be involved with sports is probably best left for another thread, but the fact is the NCAA is already part of the process of developing pro players in the US and has been for a number of years. So, it has to be taken into account when discussing the development of the game in America.

Also, the US men are already as athletic as the rest of the world. What they lack is ball skills, tactical knowledge, and the ability to read the game, which is why they lose to team’s like Venezuela, not because the players are weak, slow, or uncoordinated. Lack of athletic ability was the problem 30 years ago. Unfortunately, when the US team was working on fixing that problem, the rest of the world was working on getting more tactically sophisticated. It’s like a college football team trying to recruit better players in order to break into the top 25 while still running the wishbone like it’s 1985.

 

[James]

England has a pk saved.
The goalie for Argentina, Correa, made a bunch of great saves.

 

[James]

Big game today. 12noon Eastern.
US -Chile.

 

[Pumba]

Thailand scored a goal today! Thank god.

The USA lineup was just released - a lot of changes....

 

[James]

Very nice goal by Thailand!



USA. Seven changes.



Chile

 

[dbostedo]

Spoiler: Spoiler

Fantastic Goal by Katie Lloyd! Although Ertz may have had it if Lloyd didn't.

 

[BC.]

Dominating in the air....they play great balls in the air....with pace...perfect for headers/deflections in the box

 

[crgildart]

Dominating in the air....they play great balls in the air....with pace...perfect for headers/deflections in the box

Back to the developmental strategy discussions. Kids US rec leagues no longer allow headers in games or header drills from kids under age 14. The rule isn't all that strictly enforced in games or wasn't when it first came in to effect around 2016. but that's gotta hurt the skills required to compete at higher levels in the future. I actually agree with the motivation to wait until the kids get older and more developed skulls and brains before pushing the header drills. That's also a reason why they use smaller, lighter balls for U14 and below. But, Urp's gotta see that as us just being soft and coddling the kids more than needed.

 

[BC.]

Back to the developmental strategy discussions. Kids US rec leagues no longer allow headers in games or header drills from kids under age 14. The rule isn't all that strictly enforced in games or wasn't when it first came in to effect around 2016. but that's gotta hurt the skills required to compete at higher levels in the future. I actually agree with the motivation to wait until the kids get older and more developed skulls and brains before pushing the header drills. That's also a reason why they use smaller, lighter balls for U14 and below. But, Urp's gotta see that as us just being soft and coddling the kids more than needed.

Even at the HS level here in PA....we are limited to how much time we can do heading drills at practice. We still do it in a variety of ways.....competitive games, etc....much more technique training.....

The balls being played across the box are key.....direct, with pace, right above head level. They are first to ball....and just redirect down towards goal.....goalie has no chance.

 

[SBrown]

This Chilean keeper is a joy to watch. (Well, I guess I wouldn’t say that if the US hadn’t scored a few, but it could be 8-0 easily.)