Women's Soccer World Cup 2019

Discussion in 'Chez Ziggy' started by James, Jun 7, 2019.

  1. Thread Starter
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    James

    James Skiing the powder Instructor

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    Yeah, the US Men’s team is just a marketing bonanza here. :rolleyes: The big exception being Pulisic, though in the US he suffers from the disdain for the men’s team after the 2018 wcup failure.

    The men’s team always draws a lot when they play Mexico and the South American teams. There’s more fans rooting for Mexico than the US. I think the women don’t get that largely due to the total lack of tradition and respect for women’s teams in those countries. Brazil might be somewhat of an exception.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
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  2. Jacob

    Jacob CerebralVortex Skier

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    Pulisic moved to Germany at 16 to play for Dortmund’s youth team. I’m not familiar with all of the details, but I wouldn’t be surprised to find that appearances for the U15 and U17 national teams, including the U17 World Cup, were what caught the eye of the scouts rather than his club play.

    But for most guys in the US, moving to Europe at 16 and obtaining citizenship from an EU country based on a grandparent’s heritage in order to get around work permit requirements isn’t an option. They either impress with their MLS performances or their national team performances, and good performances against solid national teams are more impressive for European clubs than performances against MLS teams. Also, national team appearances are usually a requirement for non-EU players when applying for a work permit in order to play in European leagues.

    I know the MLS is making money with the current schedule, but it’s also clashing with other events, which means it loses a number of its best players (not just the Americans) for some of its games. Maybe scheduling around these events would lead to them making more money.

    As for the pay dispute, the global draw of men vs. women and the size of the leagues has nothing to do with it. The dispute is specifically about how much the USSF pays the women when they play for the national team compared to the men. And as the Wall Street Journal pointed out, in 2016-2018, even though the women’s team brought in more total revenue for the USSF than the men, they were paid significantly less.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  3. LuliTheYounger

    LuliTheYounger I'm just here to bother my mom Skier

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    Lol - I almost feel like if the issue is that the USMNT won't show up without a pay check, you could pay a bunch of college kids $5 each to play MEXMNT in US jerseys and get basically the same ticket sales. It's not like the USMNT is a big ticket driver because of their uproarious success.

    I get that the current attendance numbers are a reality, but it just seems like circular logic to say that the USMNT "needs" buckets of money for no results because of other countries' soccer culture, while our genuine standard-bearing team gets shortchanged because... other teams are failing at development? The US women's team has a unique development pool & a unique level of success, and imo it's kind of ridiculous to act like they should just be paid whatever's in line with some imaginary benchmark. We're the benchmark for everyone else, as far as I can tell.


    I think players in every league are aware that there's younger players behind them, but the federations get what they pay for. A "mostly qualified" national team is a team that's not worth anything, and it's not like we have 100 other Megan Rapinoes sitting around. With USSF getting dragged through the mud every other week & Hegerberg refusing to even step foot on an international pitch, I think it's pretty clear that the top teams aren't interested in playing for a plane ticket.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
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  4. Wilhelmson

    Wilhelmson Out on the slopes Skier

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    What's the answer, pay all U.S. team athletes the same? Might work. Lol I bet neither the men nor women want to get paid on commission. Diddly squat compared to the NCAA anyways.

    Anecdotally, my dad went to Dick's to buy my daughter a U.S. soccer shirt and they didn't have anything. Big problem.
     
  5. CalG

    CalG Out on the slopes Skier

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    Isn't there a rule? A willing seller and a willing buyer determine worth....

    Bottom line to me. I think there is a biblical passage to the same effect.

    Pissing and moaning AFTER the agreement is cheap. If you don't like it, Don't go. Someone else will take the slot.
    Entitlements are not very inspiring.
     
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  6. Jacob

    Jacob CerebralVortex Skier

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    It’s more like an employer giving two different contracts to different employees doing the same job, with the more successful employees getting paid much less than the less successful employees. Now, the more successful employees want to negotiate a new contract.

    That is nothing new in the soccer world. Successful players regularly renegotiate new deals with their clubs, even when they still have a few years left on their contracts.

    Why should the women be any different? Why should they get criticised for doing what men do all the time?
     
  7. BC.

    BC. NEPA ShopRat/Skier Skier

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    Sounds a lot like the teaching/coaching profession....lol
     
  8. Bill Talbot

    Bill Talbot Vintage Gear Curator Industry Insider

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    Not to mention certain players are purely there (WC/Olympics) for their own self promotion and not for the purpose of representing the country they are
    playing for. Just a world stage to sell it on. This is a huge difference from the earlier teams when there was little money at all.

    With a couple of exceptions this years show by the WNT was actually disappointing at a few levels...
     
  9. Jacob

    Jacob CerebralVortex Skier

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    Imagine if the roles were reversed, with the men earning a fraction of what the women are paid. And imagine that the men want to negotiate a new deal, pointing to the fact that they regularly bring in roughly the same amount of revenue for the USSF as the women.

    Would anyone in America criticise them for wanting equal pay if they bring in the same amount of money for the organisation?
     
  10. crgildart

    crgildart Gravity Slave Skier

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    Wow are going to also comment on how unfair Title IX is for men? How about how disastrous this individual was for Women's tennis? Did the sky fall in after they started getting the same prize money as men?
    [​IMG]
     
  11. scott43

    scott43 Making fresh tracks Skier

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    Nobody who has money or control over money is just going to give it up, are they. You have to fight for it. I don't see how anyone who is getting paid by the government can possibly be paid differently based on gender..or race.. It's hugely discriminatory. I can't imagine anyone thinking otherwise..
     
  12. SBrown

    SBrown Steve Admin Pugski Ski Tester

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    I don't think anyone is being paid by the government? Anyway, I would dearly like to have an opinion on this, but I'm not really sure what to think yet. Did anyone post this?
    https://www.si.com/soccer/2019/03/0...ccer-equal-pay-cba-eeoc-gender-discrimination .
     
  13. x10003q

    x10003q Getting off the lift Skier

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    US Soccer Federation is a non profit organization and is not related in any way to the US government.

    Once again, the men's game is way more popular than the women's game, even in the USA. If the men were earning what the women earn from their respective soccer leagues, the USSF would not have the pay the men more to play on the national team. Just to be clear, I have no problem with the women trying to negotiate better pay.
     
  14. Thread Starter
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    James

    James Skiing the powder Instructor

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    From that SI article linked above.
    ——————-
    “The players have also drawn explicit support from men's players, who seem to reject the idea that “market realities” ought to justify USSF not paying women players higher wages. The U.S. National Soccer Team Players Association released a statement on Friday that it “fully supports” USWNT players achieving both equal pay and equal distribution of attributable revenue. Further, it is “committed to the concept of a revenue-sharing model” to sustain more equitable compensation–perhaps along the lines of what was achieved by the Norwegian federation in October 2017. “
    —————-
    So much for the market argument.

    Now that there’s some money in women’s soccer, the days of the spirited amateur are over. How are people supposed to live? The US suffered from no leagues or failing leagues, for years. Europe is putting serious money in. So you’ll have kids going directly into training for leagues or playing, from high school.

    Before the last wcup, Morgan Brian and Meghan Klingenberg used to live with Jeff Van Gundy’s (former NBA coach -Knicks, Rockets) family in Houston during the Nwsl season.
    ————————-
    And the experience has opened Van Gundy's eyes to the disparity in sports for female athletes, and clearly has given him a new appreciation.

    "The utter lack of sense of entitlement was actually startling for me," he told Litman. "For professional athletes, I always think about it in these terms: the most difficult diva of women's soccer would be the easiest NBA player ever."
    ————————-
    http://www.espn.com/espnw/athletes-...er-players-actually-live-jeff-van-gundy-house
     
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  15. crgildart

    crgildart Gravity Slave Skier

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    And would anyone criticize white hetero men for lobbying for human rights reform or equality for marginalized groups they happened to belong to?
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
  16. LuliTheYounger

    LuliTheYounger I'm just here to bother my mom Skier

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    I thought this quote was interesting, from Norway's player's union president, about requesting that the men's team give up part of their marketing payments so they could free up money to increase the WNT's fees:

    “When we asked the men’s team to say if they wanted to contribute to this equality it was quite easy, because they earn so much more in their clubs. That’s their main income. They know the women’s players need [the federation income] more and it will make a difference for them—especially players in the Norwegian women’s league."

    https://www.si.com/soccer/2017/10/08/fifa-women-soccer-equal-pay-norway-gianni-infantino
     
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  17. BrianB

    BrianB Booting up Skier

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  18. crgildart

    crgildart Gravity Slave Skier

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    Article says they can't track sponsorship $s earned by men vs women.. Calling BS on that. Merch sales for women's team gear are WAY above that for men. Ad endorsements will probably also be way higher for the team who won over the team that may not even qualify again..
     
  19. scott43

    scott43 Making fresh tracks Skier

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    Sorry, thought the US team was a gov't sponsored thing. Nevertheless, this IS the national team, not a club team. I don't think equal pay is that difficult to achieve in a non-profit like that. Just takes will. I don't think you can argue for equal salaries in club teams where they are dependent on team revenue.
     
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  20. CalG

    CalG Out on the slopes Skier

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    How is the NWSL doing these days? What happened to the Old WSL?
     

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