Winter Tires for SF - Tahoe Weekend Warrior

[Dave Marshak]

https://www.consumersearch.com/snow-tires This seems like good research (i.e. they mostly agree with me ).
Funny how they forget to mention that the Blizzak price should be doubled as it's only good for half as long before you get into the other rubber compound.

Pnce your Haakeepiiliittas are down to half tread, they're mostly useless for snow tires anyway. The Blizzak leaves you with a good all season tire for the summer. There's not much cost penalty for that hard base rubber at all.

dm

 

[François Pugh]

My winter tires (Michelin and Hakka) have worked well in snow until about 1/3 tread depth left, and the shorter the remaining tread, the more resistant to wear it becomes. It takes much longer to wear out the 2nd third. After about 2/3 gone, I have to slow down for slush, still able to plow through snow deeper than the bumper though. The compound still sticks to ice even with very little tread left.

Blizzaks are rubbish as a summer tire. The only way to make them viable is selling them after two years to some poor unsuspecting schmuck.

 

[EricG]

I only run snow-tires to 1/2 depth and then they get sold the following fall.

 

[raytseng]

all of this is overthinking, 80 and 267 are heavily monitored and will be shutdown before it gets bad that your choice between winter tires are going to make that little bit of difference.

Unless your specific house you are staying at has very steep approaches (like some of the Tahoe Vista properties ), any winter or even the new category of 3PMSF hybrid 4season/real "allweather" is adequate for what you will encounter. And as other people say, replacing them after you wear through the good part is more important than the specific choice.
Your efforts are better spent on purchasing escape mats, shovel, chains (or even 2x chains), sand and other escape gear.

 

[James]

Big small shovel.
https://www.cripplecreekbc.com/products/bca-b-52-ext

 

[murphysf]

all of this is overthinking, 80 and 267 are heavily monitored and will be shutdown before it gets bad that your choice between winter tires are going to make that little bit of difference.

Unless your specific house you are staying at has very steep approaches (like some of the Tahoe Vista properties ), any winter or even the new category of 3PMSF hybrid 4season/real "allweather" is adequate for what you will encounter. And as other people say, replacing them after you wear through the good part is more important than the specific choice.
Your efforts are better spent on purchasing escape mats, shovel, chains (or even 2x chains), sand and other escape gear.

Thanks Ray - Good points

My main concern is not traction up a hill like a driveway but being able to stop and also better overall traction like when turinng or going downhill.

The issue is my current tires are All Season M&S and have about 6 or 7/32 left which are borderline for the snow but could still get lots of general use out of them during the non winter months in the bay area. That is why I was thinking of getting a second set of wheels for $100 and some winter tires.

 

[johnnyvw]

I had a set of Blizzaks on a 2001 Nissan Maxima. At the point where they has about 1/4 of the tread left, I rolled the dice on brand new all seasons. I tried getting through a snow storm, got stuck and had to resort to a set of cable chains I had in the trunk as a worst case back up plan. Got the car into the garage, changed out to the mostly worn Bliazzaks, and they went through the snow eezy peezy. So from my experience, even worn out Blizzaks are far superior to any all season tire, even when new. YMMV. I have had nearly every snow tire available the last 20 years on my car, and for mostly highway driving with snow (and more importantly, ice) traction, Michelin X3s are the way to go. I give Blizzaks an edge for traction, but they do wear faster and feel "mushier". Contis are ok but wear as quick or quicker than Blizzaks. Dunlops..."meh". Studs get the tips broken off pretty easily, and without the you give away ice traction. If ice is your concern, go with Blizzaks. And no, I don;t have experience with Hakkis, I stick with brands that are more widely available (try getting a replacement snow tire in February LOL)

 

[tball]

So from my experience, even worn out Blizzaks are far superior to any all season tire, even when new. YMMV.

I think it depends on the all-season tire.

I'd bet a new all-season tire that has excellent winter performance will generally do better in the snow than a worn winter tire. There is a vast range of winter performance in all-season tires.

 

[EricG]

I had a set of Blizzaks on a 2001 Nissan Maxima. At the point where they has about 1/4 of the tread left, I rolled the dice on brand new all seasons. I tried getting through a snow storm, got stuck and had to resort to a set of cable chains I had in the trunk as a worst case back up plan. Got the car into the garage, changed out to the mostly worn Bliazzaks, and they went through the snow eezy peezy. So from my experience, even worn out Blizzaks are far superior to any all season tire, even when new. YMMV.

I have a hard time believing a 75% worn blizzak is better than a new all season tire since a blizzak becomes an all season compound once it wears off the multi cell compound which is only the top 50% of the tire.

Studs get the tips broken off pretty easily, and without the you give away ice traction. If ice is your concern, go with Blizzaks. And no, I don;t have experience with Hakkis, I stick with brands that are more widely available (try getting a replacement snow tire in February LOL)

I’ve seen cheaper studded tires (studs installed at the shop, not factory) have the whole stud fall out, but not seen the ‘pretty easy’ stud tips breaking off..This seems a little weird.

Nokian has a pretty large distribution network. In 21 years of using Nokian I’ve never had an issue getting a replacement tire in New England or the Rockies.

 

[Uncle-A]

I have used both the Cooper tires and the General tires, although it was a long time ago with the General tires. I never got the ware out of the Generals that the manufacturer listed as the amount of miles to expect from the tire. The Cooper tires gave me the amount rated by the manufacturer and more. I replaced them before the next winter but couldn't get them again because the tire dealer I do business with switched brands. I still think Cooper are a good choice.

 

[johnnyvw]

I have a hard time believing a 75% worn blizzak is better than a new all season tire since a blizzak becomes an all season compound once it wears off the multi cell compound which is only the top 50% of the tire.

I'd bet a new all-season tire that has excellent winter performance will generally do better in the snow than a worn winter tire. There is a vast range of winter performance in all-season tires.

Well, that's my experience. It was a major storm, there was about 8" on the roadway into my apartment complex, which went up a fairly steep hill. Keep in mind this was over 15 years ago. The all seasons were Pirelli P77s. Maybe they just sucked in snow, but I expected that with full tread depth they would be better than the worn out Blizzaks. As I said, YMMV.
Nokians may be better distributed in snow country, but where I live I would have to mail order them. I'm at the mercy of what the local distributors supply to the garages in my area, or Tire Rack. How available are they in San Franscisco?
I had a bad experience with Conti snows in 1978...it was over 30 years before I had that brand on my car again.

 

[raytseng]

yea the "any" allseason will outperform the worn winter is maybe a bit of an hyperbole of a claim.

tball's post that there's a wide spectrum rings more true, especially the modern tires with all the latest techologies. Some are on the verge of being a summer tire, others are on the verge of being a winter tire.

Perhaps a better claim is the top third of all-season tires sorted by lightsnow performance at full tread will outperform the worn winter tire.
The Tirerack tests results show that to be true beyond just the customer review ratings. In some of the reports of the new 3PMSF "allWEATHER" tires, they included popular/well-rated non-certified tire, and that model scored pretty well in the snow tests, despite not having the stamp.

at Tirerack if you sort snow performance and you can easily see in the customer reviews the range, and just draw your own cutoff, for example 7.5+. It's somewhat subjective though when the numbers are close or in the "good range" there's going to be some margin of error; but you can clearly tell the ones in the middle or rate low will likely be bad for snow.

If you don't trust the wisdom of the crowd, the other way to tell is if the allseason/allweather has a dedicated winter sipes (squiggly, eg. michelin premier a/s) or they market specifically they have other snow features (e.g. conti ExtremeContact aka DWS/DWS06). this is likely to skew towards snow perfomance and perform good enough in light snow. If it has the 3PMSF stamp (but not a winter tire), obviously that too is an all-season biased towards winter.

As far as the specific brand preferences, it's fine to have bias and personal loyalties; but it is logically flawed.
I am no exception, I only buy tires brands that currently or formerly have supplied Formula1 even though I know this is completely flawed logically since those race tires have no direct relation to consumer tires, but that's just my preference.
Even within current tires, two tires of the same brand even within the same tire "category" can have a huge behavior difference.
It's like judging a whole brand of skis just based on 1 specific pair you tried.

 

[pete]

I've got the General's for use on my 2005 Silverado and found it to perform rather well. Opted for them 4 or 5 years ago as the price point was great compared to most others options. Got the Michelin for use on a 2013 Explorer around 3 yrs ago, they work great but more so on moderate snow. Between the two the Michelin's work better on the wet, slush, less deep but overall I have had no negative issues with either. .

@Raytaeng's point is a good one, if you're doing well treated/cared for roads then I'd aim for a tire for ice and slush over snow depth, so Cooper may be a better choice between the two

However although you noted a spare dedicated winter set, I think tread patterns and compounds have improved significantly in last 5 yrs so newer all seasons may still be a option for convenience, as example the Goodyear Assurance Weatherready has good reviews for winter driving. Picked these up for spouses daily rider though she had decent tread left on her Pirelli P7 which 4-5 years ago were top scored for her car .. but surpassed by newer tread and compounds.

however just looking at the pricing on some of the winter's noted .. they are pretty inexpensive.

Side note .. @Doug Briggs Hankook's tread pattern looks nearly identical to my General Artic's which have been updated.

 

[raytseng]

Yea, remember Incline Village should be piece of cake unless there's some quirk with your specific lodging.

Just follow Caltran's advice and don't try to bypass when they shut it down. Once you cross to NV though, you've left the nanny state, NV seems to give you the freedom to hang yourself. Overall just use your brain there and decide not to travel if it's that bad and shelter and stay another night wherever you are rather then trusting your picked super winter tires are going to make the difference. Plus likely your "travel" is waiting 4hours on 80 in traffic.

If you had the kids in Kirkwood though as an alternate scenario, caltrans let the roads get way more sketchy on that route before they close it up, and it's definitely more desolate and sparse with much fewer backup plans/options; I'd definitely advise more for dedicated winter tires if that was your commute.

 

[EricG]

Nokians may be better distributed in snow country, but where I live I would have to mail order them. I'm at the mercy of what the local distributors supply to the garages in my area, or Tire Rack. How available are they in San Franscisco?
.

Looks good in San Fransisco as they have America’s Tire (Discount Tire/Discount Tire Direct) which like Tirerack distributes all over to tire shops, dealerships or service centers while having 900+ walk-in stores under their own logo.

I agree, the core distribution of Nokian is probably more robust in snow country, but since winter tires is their core offering I think it’s to be expected. Their new facility is in TN or somewhere down there so maybe the network will get even better.

I’ve stopped buying Contis as I’ve have 2 sets crack/dry out while in the warranty period. My last set in late 2017 developed huge sidewall bubbles within 1k on a new vehicle. I think I would have known if I hit enough stuff to get bubbles on 3 of 4 tires in less than 1k miles. Conti was of no assistance since they were OEM tires. They were replaced with a set of Goodyear WeatherReady all weather tires.

 

[oldschoolskier]

There are a lot of good winter tires out there. I live in an area where stubs are not allowed, though I’d definitely prefer modern studded tires.

Since that is the case select the best that fits your application and invest in tire chains as they give you that extra traction if required and when you need it.

 

[Pequenita]

I feel the same as @raytseng. I think the only time I really needed true snow tires in Tahoe in the last 3 years was when I was wandering around on back roads to avoid a house fire. I (not in SF) and another friend from SF both run the Nokian WRG3 (which have been replaced with WRG4) on AWD vehicles full time. I was totally fine during myriad storms that hit this winter -- visibility was so terrible that it was a bigger issue than traction. They are available in Northern California at America's Tire, but because I was buying right as the WRG3s were no longer being produced, I ordered them from Simple Tire in November 2018.

 

[murphysf]

Hi Again

OP here.

So boiling it all down I believe its best for me to stay away from winter (40F and below) tires in my application.

My new plan is to run an All Season 3PMSF tire like the Goodyear Assurance WeatherReady

Tire Rack currently has $200 off a set of 4.

 

[François Pugh]

If you must get an all-weather tire, get Nokian, Michelin or BF Goodrich.

 

[Dave Marshak]

Hi Again

OP here.

So boiling it all down I believe its best for me to stay away from winter (40F and below) tires in my application.

My new plan is to run an All Season 3PMSF tire like the Goodyear Assurance WeatherReady

AWD is way over-rated, but you don't really need either to go skiing if you can get out of your drive way with them. I've been on the first chair hundreds of times, but I've never been there before the access road and parking lots were plowed. OTOH you won't make first chair on powder days without proper winter tires, which is the only reason I use them.

dm