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chopchop

so many skis, so little time
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Hey folks,

Getting my first pair of pow skis (118mm) and seeking advice on binding setup:

I don't have enough experience to know what my preferred mount point is likely to be. If this was a frontside ski I would not think about it. But in pow I just don't know if I want more centered/balanced or a few CM back. I don't want to just guess, nor do I want mount according to factory rec and assume I'll love it.

In a case like this, would a quality demo binding be better, so I can play with effective mount point and learn what works best for me? Seems logical but hoping some more experienced voices could chime in with thoughts.

One downside I am aware of: the added ~14mm of stand height w/the demo binding.

Thanks.
 

Doug Briggs

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A powder specific ski is going to have a powder specific mount point marked on it. I almost always trust that.

Demo bindings are typically taller as you have mentioned. Some swear by a flat mount for anything wider than XX mm wide. Others go with what they brung. I'm typically of the latter group. I would certainly consider going with a demo as this is your first foray with powder skis. I wouldn't recommend them per se but they are a valuable option gaining experience in the ski genre and will likely ease your mind in the mounting decision process.

What model ski is it? How do you like to ski in powder? What area(s) do you frequent? Have you skied (as you say you haven't owned) any fat powder skis? Do you have any intrinsic stance/balance/alignment issues?
 
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chopchop

chopchop

so many skis, so little time
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A powder specific ski is going to have a powder specific mount point marked on it. I almost always trust that.

What model ski is it? How do you like to ski in powder? What area(s) do you frequent?

Hey @Doug Briggs - It's a 118mm blackops. Has a very centered rec mount point -2.5mm.

Prefs: As far as pristine, first-chair powder, I've enjoyed mellow tree skiing at Powder Mountain but also going faster and steeper in the varied terrain off Milly @ Brighton and the strait shot down Yellow Trail/East Greeley @ Alta. Did a run down Scree (⯁⯁ @ Brighton) one day and that was a bit too hairy for me at this stage. In short: I'm still figuring it out.

Resorts: In descending relevance to powder days: Alta (for best pow days and when I'm feeling good; just starting to do the fun stuff: East Greeley, Rustlers, Wildcat, Devil's Castle), Powder Mountain (for something different & aspen glades), Snowbasin (once in blue moon); Solitude (my DD for afternoon laps off Apex & Powderhorn).
 

GregK

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Black Ops 118 at recommended if you are a freestyle skier often skiing switch and ski with a more centred stance. -2cm back (4.4cm back from center) if you are more traditional skier with a forward/centred stance who doesn’t ski switch often. Going further back will make those skis harder to pivot in tight spots. They were designed for a forward mount.

Attack2 13 110mm fit on my 116mm skis without bending, so I’m sure worst case a slight bend/rubber feet cut of the 110 brakes and they will fit. Griffon 13 has a 120mm brake option as well. Wouldn’t go to a heavy demo binding on an already heavy ski for your size.
 

Ken_R

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Hey folks,

Getting my first pair of pow skis (118mm) and seeking advice on binding setup:

I don't have enough experience to know what my preferred mount point is likely to be. If this was a frontside ski I would not think about it. But in pow I just don't know if I want more centered/balanced or a few CM back. I don't want to just guess, nor do I want mount according to factory rec and assume I'll love it.

In a case like this, would a quality demo binding be better, so I can play with effective mount point and learn what works best for me? Seems logical but hoping some more experienced voices could chime in with thoughts.

One downside I am aware of: the added ~14mm of stand height w/the demo binding.

Thanks.

I put demo bindings on my powder skis and I am glad I did. I ended up moving the boots back about 3cm from the recommended point.
 
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chopchop

chopchop

so many skis, so little time
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Black Ops 118 at recommended if you are a freestyle skier often skiing switch and ski with a more centred stance. -2cm back (4.4cm back from center) if you are more traditional skier with a forward/centred stance who doesn’t ski switch often. Going further back will make those skis harder to pivot in tight spots. They were designed for a forward mount.

Attack2 13 110mm fit on my 116mm skis without bending, so I’m sure worst case a slight bend/rubber feet cut of the 110 brakes and they will fit. Griffon 13 has a 120mm brake option as well. Wouldn’t go to a heavy demo binding on an already heavy ski for your size.

Thanks @GregK - Yeah, I saw blister reviewer mounted @ -4.4cm and that worked well (partly why I started this thread, though it's not ski-specific). That MP would be my starting point should I go the retail binding route. Would probably do pivot 14s @ 115mm.

Had not considered the rail weight of the demo bindings should look at those specs to factor in. Thanks.
 
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chopchop

chopchop

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I put demo bindings on my powder skis and I am glad I did. I ended up moving the boots back about 3cm from the recommended point.

@Ken_R Great to hear this. I have read a few posts by folks regretting mounting their wide-ski bindings at point X or Y and don't want to end up like them :)
 
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chopchop

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@GregK Weight would def be an issue. Attack 13 demos are 2550 grams/pair vs. 2230 for Pivot 14s. Thanks for pointing this out as it might force my decision given these are heavy skis to begin with.
 

GregK

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@GregK Weight would def be an issue. Attack 13 demos are 2550 grams/pair vs. 2230 for Pivot 14s. Thanks for pointing this out as it might force my decision given these are heavy skis to begin with.

Heavier overall weight/swing weight and the longer binding mounting template on a demo binding which won’t allow as natural a flex of the ski like the Pivots. Pivots don’t allow much adjustability, so not the greatest for people like me who swap skis often but they are definitely one of/the highest performing binding out there(especially on a freestyle ski).

Could always wait to try different mounts with demo bindings on those skis next season and mount yours when you finally decide on a spot.
 
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chopchop

chopchop

so many skis, so little time
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Heavier overall weight/swing weight and the longer binding mounting template on a demo binding which won’t allow as natural a flex of the ski like the Pivots. Pivots don’t allow much adjustability, so not the greatest for people like me who swap skis often but they are definitely one of/the highest performing binding out there(especially on a freestyle ski).

Could always wait to try different mounts with demo bindings on those skis next season and mount yours when you finally decide on a spot.

@GregK Hadn't thought of the flex issue. So that's three strikes on demo bindings (weight, impairs flex, added stand height). Blackops are stiff underfoot so rail-gidity may not be a huge issue - but the weight would be, as you pointed out.

re: Pivots - yeah, I already have a pair w/115 brakes so I may be all set there.

Your last comment is actually why I started this thread: use demo bindings to experiment on MPs. I simply don't know what I will prefer (centered, trad, etc). I appreciate the convo - helps me think all this through. Maybe the main point to remember is: "Dude, it's not a huge deal. You can always redrill." With that attitude, starting with a demo (ignoring .35lb weight addition per ski) to learn preference and then redrilling for the Pivot may not be a bad way to go (both/and vs. either/or).

So, know where I can get a deal on an attack 13 demo?? ;)
 

GregK

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Mount points changes are ski model and skier style/preference dependant but most skis you can safely move forward or back 1-2cm without much issue. The Black Ops 118 is almost a symmetrical ski so moving way back from center and you’d be starting to fight the sidecut.

Since you’re used to more traditional mounts and not skiing switch, moving back 2cm or so from recommended would be a pretty safe bet to mount the Pivots if you couldn’t demo first.
Don’t overthink it even though all of us have nothing else to do than think about it till next season!:roflmao:
 

ARL67

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I can't seem to find any good deals on the Attack 13 Demo

You can get the Griffon Demos at Corbetts, which have the newer TCX heel ( twin cam ), which are allegedly easier to step into than the older Royal series of demo bindings

The Warden 13 Demo is also a quality demo-binding but mo' money:
 

Philpug

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Rossignol and Dynastar are mounting long track retail derived SPX bindings on their wider test skis. These bindings have a hard mount toe and the heel can move up to 5 boot sizes. This shows that stand height is more important than mount postion.
 

Tony S

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Rossignol and Dynastar are mounting long track retail derived SPX bindings on their wider test skis. These bindings have a hard mount toe and the heel can move up to 5 boot sizes. This shows that stand height is more important than mount postion.

Interesting.
 

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
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@chopchop, just remember, there are always plenty of what my S.O. calls "FEs"' around. I would lean toward Doug Briggs' perspective. K.I.S.S. Then again, what do I know? I'm just another FE.
 
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chopchop

chopchop

so many skis, so little time
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325
Location
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I can't seem to find any good deals on the Attack 13 Demo

You can get the Griffon Demos at Corbetts, which have the newer TCX heel ( twin cam ), which are allegedly easier to step into than the older Royal series of demo bindings

The Warden 13 Demo is also a quality demo-binding but mo' money:

Thanks, @ARL67.
 
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chopchop

chopchop

so many skis, so little time
Skier
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Too far
Rossignol and Dynastar are mounting long track retail derived SPX bindings on their wider test skis. These bindings have a hard mount toe and the heel can move up to 5 boot sizes. This shows that stand height is more important than mount postion.

Will look into it. Thanks @Philpug.
 
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chopchop

chopchop

so many skis, so little time
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@Doug Briggs I just read your edits. Thanks for the input. Latest thinking is go with what I brung (got a pair of pivot 14s lying around) and do a MP based on evidence I gather. Then, if/when that seems sub-optimal, just redrill. These aren't Stockli's or DPS alchemists. Got 'em at demo ski prices. So no need to obsess.

As to your two added Qs: never skied wider than a 105. And no alignment/stance issues I'm aware of.

I appreciate you guys.
 
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chopchop

chopchop

so many skis, so little time
Skier
Joined
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325
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Rossignol and Dynastar are mounting long track retail derived SPX bindings on their wider test skis. These bindings have a hard mount toe and the heel can move up to 5 boot sizes. This shows that stand height is more important than mount postion.

So no effective MP adjustment. Maybe this will stimulate innovation in ultra low-profile track concepts for demo/adjustable bindings, assuming anyone cares. People pay $450 for zipfits. Would they pay $500 for a 17mm stand height binding that stood on a track?
 

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