Why is it hard to get out of the backseat on nearly flat terrain?

[givethepigeye]

feel can be good, but some people learn to ski with awful for and aft alignment to the point that its feel right.

IMO the simplest and quickest way to test your for and aft is to put you ski boots on and do a squat on level smooth ground. if you fall backwards raise the heel, if you fall forwards raise the toes. Adjust until have the most range of motion possible .

Thanks - exactly what I was looking for

 

[oldschoolskier]

Read ScotsSkiers posts on boot stiffness on EPIC. A lot of top skier are starting to race softer boots. It's not about stiffness but fit in a boot at the 130 mark and up.

 

[oldschoolskier]

As to balance issues first you have to understand what your balance is and train your muscle accordingly.

Side Slip drills plain and simple. Once you understand balance feel, back seat isn't the issue anymore as muscle memory will compensate correctly.

 

[skibob]

feel can be good, but some people learn to ski with awful for and aft alignment to the point that its feel right.

IMO the simplest and quickest way to test your for and aft is to put you ski boots on and do a squat on level smooth ground. if you fall backwards raise the heel, if you fall forwards raise the toes. Adjust until have the most range of motion possible .

So, if I put my boots on and leave them somewhat loose as I described before, I balance pretty well. Maybe have to consciously keep my weight forward a tad, but just in terms of the angles of torso as I squat. Not raising my arms or doing anything extreme.

If I buckle them down snugly, I definitely want to fall backwards.

If I read all correctly, starting to look more and more like ramp angle, yes? Is the best way to address this a shim under the heel plate? Is there a temporary way to test this? I am aware of the duct tape under toe of boot technique to raise toes. A similar temporary measure to test heel theory?

 

[skibob]

As to balance issues first you have to understand what your balance is and train your muscle accordingly.

Side Slip drills plain and simple. Once you understand balance feel, back seat isn't the issue anymore as muscle memory will compensate correctly.

Interesting you bring up side slips. On saturday, when I was also skiing with my boots looser, I was practicing side slips with my kids. I remember thinking with satisfaction that I was doing them particularly well. But I was focused on the kids and didn't really think about it enough to connect it to the looser boots until I read your comment.

Seems to support the ramp angle conclusion if I am following this all correctly?

 

[sam mosier]

Sounds to me like you need to "get forward dude" I'm teasing of course. As an instructor I work on this issue on a daily basis. This can be a variety of things as have been posted. I would also have to see whats happening to be of any help. But, first the standing forward lean in the boot is the first thing I would look at. I had old Dalbello krypton pros with a lot of forward lean, My trainer said too much actually. Now I have Technica infernos with less FL and they are great. I do find myself in the back seat sometimes but that is most likely due to operator error. Which we all have. I am going to have Bud ( I work with Bud) look at my alignment as I am now interested to see where I stand... pun intended.....and see if I could improve it

 

[skibob]

So, if I put my boots on and leave them somewhat loose as I described before, I balance pretty well. Maybe have to consciously keep my weight forward a tad, but just in terms of the angles of torso as I squat. Not raising my arms or doing anything extreme.

If I buckle them down snugly, I definitely want to fall backwards.

If I read all correctly, starting to look more and more like ramp angle, yes? Is the best way to address this a shim under the heel plate? Is there a temporary way to test this? I am aware of the duct tape under toe of boot technique to raise toes. A similar temporary measure to test heel theory?

Quoting my own post here, an experiment just occurred to me. Tonight I'll buckle into my boots tightly and put something under the heels. 3-4mm thick. That will at least tell me if I balance well with the heel rise.

Still very interested in any hacks that will allow me to ski that way w/o actually shimming. To make sure that is the ticket before I go to the effort of shimming that is.

 

[Ron]

I will come at this from a different perspective. instead of focusing on the boots, take a look at your upper body. Specifically stand sideways and have someone take a picture of you standing ( bare feet or in regular shoes and then in ski boots) sideways in. a relaxed normal stance. A lot of people (including myself ) have a posture where from about your shoulder blades up actually tilt slightly backwards this will tend to throw you back on your bike and skiing. You can correct this of course. For starters Try rolling your upper back so that you are more aligned with the rest of your back. Some skiers almost look hunched at the upper back but it' will help to keep you better balanced Even a slight amount will equate to larger effects over the length of your body. If you share this issue, try starting off each run with your upper back pulled slightly forward and remain aware of the feeling. There are pt excercises that you can do to help correct this.

 

[oldschoolskier]

I'm a firm believer that setup and technique go hand in hand. Sometimes it easy to fix a setup but hinder development long term.

Make sure you understand what and why you fixing.

A really good instructor can be of great help here as they will look at both what you do and why you do it.

 

[skibob]

Last weekend I was skiing mostly with the kids. I was practicing side slips with my daughter and was surprised to find that my "neutral" position leading to me sliding forward across the slope. Not a lot, but definitely some. At first this was bizzare, as I feel back seat on flatish ground. Why would I go forward? And a side slip you are kind of in the same position, perpendicular to the fall line. I knew that if I straightened my back up or pulled my hands back I would just be too upright. So I did the only other thing I could: Bent my knees some more and THEN straightened up my back a bit and pulled my hands back just a little. And went slipping straight down the slope.

My first thought was that I need more forward angle to my boots. That perhaps my boots were too upright, and I was compensating by moving forward at the waist and hands.

But then I got to looking at my boots. They have quite a bit of forward angle already. I can post a photo next week, but they are at Donner Lake, and I am not at the moment.

This is starting to sound more and more like shims under the heel piece are what is needed?

Anybody have a workaround idea to test this before I go to the trouble?

 

[Ken_R]

Gravity and speed mask a lot of errors. The gentle slopes don't give you room to make errors as they immediately slow you down.

Funny as it sounds it may not be an equipment issue, but possibly a technique issue.

I agree. On easy slopes even with crappy gear that shouldnt happen (ski badly if you ski well on harder slopes).

 

[oldschoolskier]

Last weekend I was skiing mostly with the kids. I was practicing side slips with my daughter and was surprised to find that my "neutral" position leading to me sliding forward across the slope. Not a lot, but definitely some. At first this was bizzare, as I feel back seat on flatish ground. Why would I go forward? And a side slip you are kind of in the same position, perpendicular to the fall line. I knew that if I straightened my back up or pulled my hands back I would just be too upright. So I did the only other thing I could: Bent my knees some more and THEN straightened up my back a bit and pulled my hands back just a little. And went slipping straight down the slope.

My first thought was that I need more forward angle to my boots. That perhaps my boots were too upright, and I was compensating by moving forward at the waist and hands.

But then I got to looking at my boots. They have quite a bit of forward angle already. I can post a photo next week, but they are at Donner Lake, and I am not at the moment.

This is starting to sound more and more like shims under the heel piece are what is needed?

Anybody have a workaround idea to test this before I go to the trouble?

This is a balance and edge feel issue. IMHO more common than most think. Just keep doing the drill until your brain adjusts and auto corrects.

I still do this and other drills at the start of every season to ensure the balance point.

 

[skibob]

So, yet another update. Increased the forward lean. Money.

I still suspect that heel shims would have been good too. But changing forward lean is easier. Anybody have an idea of what the difference would feel like? Forward lean vs heel shim?

 

[Philpug]

So, yet another update. Increased the forward lean. Money.

I still suspect that heel lifts would have been good too. But changing forward lean is easier. Anybody have an idea of what the difference would feel like? Forward lean vs heel lifts?

Heel lifts do not change the forward lean of the boot but opens up the ankle to allow more dorsioflection.

 

[skibob]

I think I would like the heel lifts. before I redid the forward lean I loosened my upper boots to effectively give me more forward lean. I was surprised this didn't give me a lot of trouble with the tails but I am skiing a Fischer Motive 95 which seems to have electronic traction control like my SUV. Also skied Underworlds in powder with the loosened boots a few weeks ago w/o trouble. Haven't skied anything with a less than confidence inspiring tail in firm conditions (with the loose boots).

Anyway, first question: Are there any issues around removing heel binding and shimming? In terms of screws reseating, etc? I intend to have a good shop do it, but just wondering if anything to be concerned about?

But my experience with the loosened boots also makes me wonder, how tight should they be? The upper I mean. I have the lower portion pretty much dialed in. They sure were a lot more comfortable loosened up.

 

[skibob]

I should have added this. "Loose" means I could get my pinky inserted fully into the boot at the front of the shin.