Why do Aaattack 13's get so much love?

[Mickey]

(This pertains to the retail version not the demo.)

What about the Aaattack 13 makes it so popular here? What sets it apart from the RX12, for example? Or Salomon Z12?

 

[Philpug]

Hey Mickey,

First is price, the Attack 13 is priced very well, $199 for a binding that goes to 13. Most other bindings that go to this range start at $229.00. It is light, and skis light, with a compact lateral spring toe, it is actaully light but also has a low swing weight so again it skis light. The toe is also very laterally rigid so it creates a very solid interface between the boot and the skis. The twin cam heel is easy to step into, a design that works well in deep snow. Delta angle, the Attack 13 has a 2mm differential from heel to toe which is relatively flat creating a modern stance on the skis. Function, as any binding tech what the most consistent bindings are that they function test and most will reply by saying "Tyrolia", An even better deal is the Attack 12, the 13's little sister, it onlyes one mlower to 12 but is the same binding for $179 but you have to deal with a more feminine color palette.

Comparing to the 2 other bindings you mentioned? The Attacks brother, the PRX 12 which has a longitudinally mounted spring in the toe is a fine binding for sure, it is the design that Tyrolia uses on all of theyr system skis and their race skis is great binding but the delta is much more significant at 6mm, not as obvious with a bigger boot but with a smaller shell, you can feel like you in high heels. This can be corrected with a toe shim. The Salomon Z12 is totally out classed here. The plastic encased heel track has been shown to weaken and come apart and loosen on skis over 90mm underfoot. The toe is not near as laterally rigid plus the wings do not act independantly and more aggressive skiers have been known to slingshot out.

 

[Ron]

The attack is also just a dependable work horse. Not as sexy as a fks but it just works.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

I currently have attack 13s on 2 pair of skis and will be replacing a pair of marker griffons with attack 13s on another pair.

 

[Lauren]

Everything Philpug said above. The one thing I'd add, I love the low stand height, at 17mm. This adds to the solid interface described above. It makes it so you can really feel the ski, and gives you a solid, stable platform to menuever the ski with.

This may not be the desired feel for everyone, on every ski. A binding with a taller stand height will allow you get a ski on edge easier, with less torque on your knees. However, I think many people negate this spec based on how well this binding performs.

 

[SkiNurse]

It is the right ramp angle for me so I don't need any shimming or other adjustments.

 

[Monique]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned: ease of clicking in. They are *so* easy to step into compared to the Marker Griffons I'd been buying, sort of by default, before. I can't tell you how many times I needed help getting back into a Marker in soft snow.

This season, while my knee recovers - by the end of the day, even stepping into the Attack13s is painful. But it would be literally impossible for me in a Marker.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

That's what actually what started my love affair with the Attacks when I bought my first pair of Kenjas in 2015. I clicked in and went ahhhh.

 

[Mickey]

Hey Mickey,

First is price, the Attack 13 is priced very weill, $199 for a binding that goes to 13. Most other bindings that go to this range start at $229.00. It is light, and skis light, with a compact lateral sprimg toe, it is actaully light but also has a low swing weight so again it skis light. The toe is also very laerally rigid so it creates a very solid interface between the boot and the skis. The twin cam heel is easy to step into, a design that works well in deep snow. Delta angle, the Attack 13 has a 2mm differntial from heel to toe which is relatively flat creating a modern stance on the skis. Function, as any binding tech what the most consistent bindings are that they function test and most will reply by saying "Tyrolia", An even better deal is the Attack 12, the 13's little sister, it onlyes one mlower to 12 but is the same binding for $179 but you have to deal with a more feminine color palette.

Comparing to the 2 other bindings you mentioned? The Attacks brother, the PRX 12 which has a longitudinally mounted spring in the toe is a fine binding for sure, it is the design that Tyrolia uses on all of theyr system skis and their race skis is great binding but the delta is much more significant at 6mm, not as obvious with a bigger boot but with a smaller shell, you can feel like you in high heels. This can be corrected with a toe shim. The Salomon Z12 is totally out classed here. The plastic encased heel track has been shown to weaken and come apart and loosen on skis over 90mm underfoot. The toe is not near as laterally rigid plus the wings do not act independantly and more aggressive skiers have been known to slingshot out.

What about Freeflex models (and other manufacturers comparable system)? Is there no real benefit? Too much weight?

 

[Ron]

LOL, @Philpug l did mention that especially in deep snow, and I'll add that becomes even more significant in tricky (not a good place to have fallen in the 1st place) terrain. Getting back into a binding can literally be a lifesaver.

 

[Philpug]

What about Freeflex models (and other manufacturers comparable system)? Is there no real benefit? Too much weight?

The Freeflex has its place on race skis and pure carving skis.

 

[Started at 53]

What width bindings would you put on a 77mm waist ski?

 

[cantunamunch]

What about Freeflex models (and other manufacturers comparable system)? Is there no real benefit? Too much weight?

The Freeflex has its place on race skis and pure carving skis.

...and is actually a pretty light-weight, pretty budget oriented option if one isn't locked into a system (Look, Marker, Atomic).

 

[Philpug]

What width bindings would you put on a 77mm waist ski?

75-80mm

 

[James]

Everything Philpug said above. The one thing I'd add, I love the low stand height, at 17mm. This adds to the solid interface described above. It makes it so you can really feel the ski, and gives you a solid, stable platform to menuever the ski with.

This may not be the desired feel for everyone, on every ski. A binding with a taller stand height will allow you get a ski on edge easier, with less torque on your knees. However, I think many people negate this spec based on how well this binding performs.

The taller stand height will allow you to apply more torque to the edge (assuming you move the knee further in). But the reverse is true too- the snow surface can apply more force into your knee. If one is going to ski at high edge angles on a narrow ski you need height so you don't boot out - the side of the boot hits the snow and forces the edge out of it's track. Boot out can be quite dangerous as it usually occurs at speed when people are laying it over.

Can't go much further than this:

Ted training gs, March 2014. From Ted's facebook.

^ Another reason racers like hard snow. It's safer as long as it's not crazy grippy. You would not want the ski to dig in there so deep it hits the boot and you go off on the tangent.

Btw, it's interesting to see where he's looking based on the turning of his head. Just before the gate he is not looking at the gate he's about to go past. He's looking at the next gate and the path he will take. You can see he locks in on the future path in the 3rd frame from right. This is what people need to understand about tree skiing. As you approach the tree, one should be seeing the path ahead to take, not looking at the tree you're about to pass. You're done with that. Do we stare at telephone poles on the side of the road while driving?

 

[Alexzn]

Tyrolia on average produces some of the most dependable well engineered bindings out there and they are just about the only company with consistent technology all through the line. As opposed to, say, Salomon which makes top notch STH binding for the higher end and highly mediocre stuff such as Z12 for the lower end. Also, Attack demos being hugely popular right now push people towards the other offering in the line (plus everything Phil said). I personally still give a slight advantage to the FKS and STH binding becuase of the longitudinal spring toe (as opposed to transverse spring in Attacks and Marker Royalty) but that is a rather marginal advantage. My daughter did freeride competitions on Aattack 13 the last two seasons with zero problems so far.

 

[cantunamunch]

makes top notch STH binding for the higher end and highly mediocre stuff such as Z12 for the lower end.

I used to scratch my head over the S500/600/Z10/Z12 series until I heard that, for light users, they test fairly consistently with age. Pure hearsay with no further backing evidence - but if true then I really respect Solly's corporate choices.

 

[Lauren]

Tyrolia on average produces some of the most dependable well engineered bindings out there and they are just about the only company with consistent technology all through the line. As opposed to, say, Salomon which makes top notch STH binding for the higher end and highly mediocre stuff such as Z12 for the lower end.

Comparing the Salomon STH binding to their Z-series is like comparing Tyrolia's Attack to their RX binding. They are in two different leagues.

I personally still give a slight advantage to the FKS and STH binding becuase of the longitudinal spring toe (as opposed to transverse spring in Attacks and Marker Royalty) but that is a rather marginal advantage.

Out of curiosity...what's the advantage of having a longitudinal spring instead of lateral? (this question may deserve a thread of it's own).

 

[Philpug]

Out of curiosity...what's the advantage of having a longitudinal spring instead of lateral? (this question may deserve a thread of it's own).

Simply, a longitudinal toe tends to have more elasticity before it releases, the lateral spring tends to be a quicker return to center. Again, I used a word..."tends", this is more a guideline than a steadfast rule than can carry from manufacturer to manufacture and binding to binding.

 

[Mickey]

@Philpug you should do a "Steals & Deals" / "Tester Favorites" for bindings. (And maybe "Avoid These", too.) It seems like binding selection is too often left to brand-loyalty, hearsay and aesthetics.

(Not that aesthetics should be ignored! Probably best to not be the #1 criteria, though. )