Why are too many parking lots unpaved and often a mess because of it?

[François Pugh]

I haven't been following, and don't have time now to read all the posts, so apologies if it's already been pointed out. There is only one real reason, and it's the same reason even good ski instructors are underpaid in North America:

 

[scott43]

I haven't been following, and don't have time now to read all the posts, so apologies if it's already been pointed out. There is only one real reason, and it's the same reason even good ski instructors are underpaid in North America:

Hey, don't give me that do goody-good bullshit!!!

 

[Varmintmist]

They are not paved because it costs to much for little to no gain. Taxes and initial investment are part, but if they can get away for 3 years by taking a grader over the lot once a summer before calling for 2 tri-axels of 2B to dress it up a little, people are not going to stop coming.

All parking surfaces move with freeze thaw, every single one. Concrete heaves, asphaltic concrete cracks, stone sinks. As to wear of asphalt over stone, well most stone parking lots are 1 to 2 inch crushed limestone (or available material) guess what asphalt is? Smaller crushed limestone, asphalt, and sand rolled flat. The more abrasive of the two isnt the one that is flat, but the one with pointy things sticking up. The difference between 60 grit and 300 grit.
To control runoff you engineer the parking lot and place drainage, or lean the whole thing downhill.

Your car is going to leak no matter what surface it is on.
I dunno, but complaining about the environmental impact of a parking lot in reference to skiing where we wear 100% man made materials, many oil based. Oil based plastic boots and multiple skis that were imported by freighter flagged by whatever country was cheapest at the time, from country's that cant even spell EPA so that we can drive our personally owned vehicles eating food packaged in plastic, to go to a place that uses massive amounts of power to haul us up hills and keep us warm so that we can do it again is a tad disingenuous.
Unless you are carving your own skis from trees off your property and driving a Yoder Toter (Amish buggy) your impact is pretty heavy already.

 

[crgildart]

They are not paved because it costs to much for little to no gain. Taxes and initial investment are part, but if they can get away for 3 years by taking a grader over the lot once a summer before calling for 2 tri-axels of 2B to dress it up a little, people are not going to stop coming.

All parking surfaces move with freeze thaw, every single one. Concrete heaves, asphaltic concrete cracks, stone sinks. As to wear of asphalt over stone, well most stone parking lots are 1 to 2 inch crushed limestone (or available material) guess what asphalt is? Smaller crushed limestone, asphalt, and sand rolled flat. The more abrasive of the two isnt the one that is flat, but the one with pointy things sticking up. The difference between 60 grit and 300 grit.
To control runoff you engineer the parking lot and place drainage, or lean the whole thing downhill.

Your car is going to leak no matter what surface it is on.
I dunno, but complaining about the environmental impact of a parking lot in reference to skiing where we wear 100% man made materials, many oil based. Oil based plastic boots and multiple skis that were imported by freighter flagged by whatever country was cheapest at the time, from country's that cant even spell EPA so that we can drive our personally owned vehicles eating food packaged in plastic, to go to a place that uses massive amounts of power to haul us up hills and keep us warm so that we can do it again is a tad disingenuous.
Unless you are carving your own skis from trees off your property and driving a Yoder Toter (Amish buggy) your impact is pretty heavy already.

We need magic carpets running from the lower and upper lots to the base lodge. Is that too much to ask???

 

[Varmintmist]

Lower lot to summit you mean.

Lodges? We don need no steenkin lodges.

 

[Goose]

They are not paved because it costs to much for little to no gain. Taxes and initial investment are part, but if they can get away for 3 years by taking a grader over the lot once a summer before calling for 2 tri-axels of 2B to dress it up a little, people are not going to stop coming.

All parking surfaces move with freeze thaw, every single one. Concrete heaves, asphaltic concrete cracks, stone sinks. As to wear of asphalt over stone, well most stone parking lots are 1 to 2 inch crushed limestone (or available material) guess what asphalt is? Smaller crushed limestone, asphalt, and sand rolled flat. The more abrasive of the two isnt the one that is flat, but the one with pointy things sticking up. The difference between 60 grit and 300 grit.
To control runoff you engineer the parking lot and place drainage, or lean the whole thing downhill.

Your car is going to leak no matter what surface it is on.
I dunno, but complaining about the environmental impact of a parking lot in reference to skiing where we wear 100% man made materials, many oil based. Oil based plastic boots and multiple skis that were imported by freighter flagged by whatever country was cheapest at the time, from country's that cant even spell EPA so that we can drive our personally owned vehicles eating food packaged in plastic, to go to a place that uses massive amounts of power to haul us up hills and keep us warm so that we can do it again is a tad disingenuous.
Unless you are carving your own skis from trees off your property and driving a Yoder Toter (Amish buggy) your impact is pretty heavy already.

I too sort of took your view and I don't feel paved lot creates any more threat as indicated in my posts. But to be fair and whether that's right or wrong.............when it comes to environmental issues of any degree or importance it never makes sense to justify something just because there are other factors contributing to it. In other words imo you control what you can even though other factors exist. We don't throw garbage in the street or not worry about it just because others do it. We ski and yea there is a whole world directly and indirectly related to skiing that has negative affects (some of which you pointed out) but that doesn't imo make it correct that we ignore other things.

On another note I found it interesting and as I searched the www I find asphalt doesn't leach and in fact is even used to line some potable water tanks, pipes, wells, reservoirs, etc.. Water doesn't penetrate it and on its own doesn't leach its petroleum material. Its the surface debris and oils and fluids that run off. But as said imo that same stuff is there anyway on unpaved lots too.

 

[BC.]

We need magic carpets running from the lower and upper lots to the base lodge. Is that too much to ask???

Funny you say that. I was at Windham last Sunday with a buddy....(hadn’t been there in awhile). We parked in a lower lot....just below the new to me condos. We started walking up towards the main lodge to boot up and there was to our surprise 2 separate magic carpets that took people up to the main lodge area. Kinda neat for kids.......and families schlepping gear, but we walked along side cause it was faster to walk.......

 

[Varmintmist]

I too sort of took your view and I don't feel paved lot creates any more threat as indicated in my posts. But to be fair and whether that's right or wrong.............when it comes to environmental issues of any degree or importance it never makes sense to justify something just because there are other factors contributing to it. In other words imo you control what you can even though other factors exist. We don't throw garbage in the street or not worry about it just because others do it. We ski and yea there is a whole world directly and indirectly related to skiing that has negative affects (some of which you pointed out) but that doesn't imo make it correct that we ignore other things.

On another note I found it interesting and as I searched the www I find asphalt doesn't leach and in fact is even used to line some potable water tanks, pipes, wells, reservoirs, etc.. Water doesn't penetrate it and on its own doesn't leach its petroleum material. Its the surface debris and oils and fluids that run off. But as said imo that same stuff is there anyway on unpaved lots too.

I know it doesnt leach, grew up in the biz and about 99.5% of the envriowacko stuff about blacktop is fantasy. Byproducts of the actual installation were worse but have been mitigated over time. Your shingles are asphalt and while they break down over time they are not leaching petroleum into the water table. Your basement has a coating of asphalt on the outside of the block to seal it and that is not leaching into your french drains, ect ect...

As to controlling what you can, that is my point. Justifying the factors of all of the plastic and fuel personally used for nothing but entertainment while complaining about a resorts paving of a parking lot is disingenuous. If you quit skiing you will save the parking lot from getting blacktopped because there will be no need, and as a bonus you will not be engaging in destroying the environment on a personal level for funzies. Skiing for fun is nothing but a justification. So, if you are serious, then get rid of the cell phones, laptops, car, and ability to control the heat and go Amish, otherwise its just "Its OK for me to do what I want to but not OK for you to do what you want to because I say so."

 

[at_nyc]

So, if you are serious, then get rid of the cell phones, laptops, car, and ability to control the heat and go Amish,

Just because someone doesn't go all the way back into the cave his ancestor comes from, doesn't mean he should stop being mindful of MINIMIZING his impact.

It's not all or none. everybody need to do their own part. If enough people do enough of it, our environmental impact will be lower without giving up all the fun stuff we're having.

To say the only way to minimize environment impact is to stop living, as a justification for not doing anything at all, is selfish.

 

[Varmintmist]

Just because someone doesn't go all the way back into the cave his ancestor comes from, doesn't mean he should stop being mindful of MINIMIZING his impact.

It's not all or none. everybody need to do their own part. If enough people do enough of it, our environmental impact will be lower without giving up all the fun stuff we're having.

To say the only way to minimize environment impact is to stop living, as a justification for not doing anything at all, is selfish.

Absolutely true. As long as they are mindful of minimizing their own impact BEFORE they get full of it enough to start minding others impact. Someone with a chicken house has little justification to tell the owner of a piggery that his boots stink.

Anyway, again to the OP. The parking lot isnt paved because it isnt cost effective. Period.

 

[Goose]

well, the environmental debates aside. I do feel its mostly an economic thing as for why more of them are not paved.
In some cases there may indeed be some regulations that wont permit it even if the reasons can be debated. But for the most part I do think mostly comes down to the money to install it and maintain it. Its not something that is going to increase lift ticket sales so the powers that be then must figure why spend the bucks.
But I also do get the "slip on ice" thing too (at least to some degree) because I can debate some of the too as I did eelier. .

 

[at_nyc]

I do feel its mostly an economic thing as for why more of them are not paved.

Well, for a business to put money to pave it, they would have to get something in return. What's that "something"? More slip and fall lawsuits? Seriously, paved parking isn't any better from the skiers' perspective. So, unless that parking lot also sees a lot of non-skier traffic in the summer, there's no motivation to pave it.

It's not like paving parking is down on the priority list. It's not even ON the priority list because half of the skiing population don't want it in the first place.

 

[tball]

I would be nice if resorts put regular grading and a fresh coat of gravel/rocks on the priority list. That would make for some high-end parking.

 

[Dave Marshak]

Aren't you all using valet parking now?

dm

 

[Goose]

Well, for a business to put money to pave it, they would have to get something in return. What's that "something"? More slip and fall lawsuits? Seriously, paved parking isn't any better from the skiers' perspective. So, unless that parking lot also sees a lot of non-skier traffic in the summer, there's no motivation to pave it.

It's not like paving parking is down on the priority list. It's not even ON the priority list because half of the skiing population don't want it in the first place.

I don't know if half the ski population doesn't want it. how can we make that assessment.
Most people probably don't think of the topic in the first place and just accept that we park on mostly gravel lots. That wouldn't mean they don't want a paved one.

 

[Fuller]

 

[at_nyc]

I don't know if half the ski population doesn't want it. how can we make that assessment.
Most people probably don't think of the topic in the first place and just accept that we park on mostly gravel lots. That wouldn't mean they don't want a paved one.

We DID make that assessment during this thread!

I'd say MORE than half of the response don't want it. The main reason being we're on ski boots that are more uncomfortable on hard surfaces!

It's your thread. Why not add a poll and get to the bottom of it?

 

[Pumba]

Sorry guys, but is this a "joke" thread? I've been seeing it from afar, and the original question as a topic for discussion kind of makes me have a weird feeling in my stomach - dizzy maybe?......So, hopefully this is the British/dry humor section of the forum ....

... Continue with the conversation/debate...Just felt like I had to say something here...

 

[Goose]

We DID make that assessment during this thread!

I'd say MORE than half of the response don't want it. The main reason being we're on ski boots that are more uncomfortable on hard surfaces!

It's your thread. Why not add a poll and get to the bottom of it?

Well to be fair "we" here don't represent most the skiing population. And in fact Id say we are a unique community in that most people are not into discussing all things skiing as often nor as in depth such as we do here nor are as dedicated in that sense. Plus when vs the average population of skiers there are a higher percentage here who ski far more often and at higher levels of ability. There is simply a bit of a different mindset as for opinions and views when coming from a unique community. So any poll here is not really a true measure of what the same pole might result among the general masses of skiers out there. It could be, but it may not at all be. We just wouldn't know unless one was taken..lol

[

 

[at_nyc]

When it comes to skills and ski frequency, we're indeed not exactly "average".

But with regard to walking in ski boots on hard surfaces, how "unrepresentative" do you think we are from the average skiers?