Who is held responsible for backcountry mishaps?

[Tricia]

A recent story in the Sierra has me thinking about the possibility of an expensive rescue and who pays for it.

The story that triggered the thought for me is here.

Backcountry skier rescued near Mountain Tallac after falling over 200 feet
CHP Video footage
Here is one of the comments from that video on CHP's FB page.

There is some buzz around here about who it is and the risks others took to get him out, but its just mountain town buzz with varying ideas on cost, possible carelessness (though I don't know so I'm not implying carelessness), risking someone else wellbeing while taking your own risks.


Just got me thinking...
Is CHP's practice of not billing the patient common place?

 

[martyg]

I believe that if you purchase a hunt / fish license in CO a few bucks goes to insurance for SAR. Other states may have similar. It would be worth the basic fishing license fee.

I used to be the guy jumping out of a Huey or H3 to rescue people who did stupid things, so I am particularly sensitive to ass-clownery in the woods.

 

[RuleMiHa]

I feel like I read an article about people who got charged for their second rescue. First was on the county, but the second time (they did something remarkably boneheaded) they got the bill. Can't remember where that was..........

 

[mikel]

Yes in CO there is something like $5 that goes toward SAR from a hunt/fishing license. You can also purchase a card in support of SAR purposes for a similar price. Neither cover heli ops.

 

[Analisa]

WA SAR is completely free since we imagine most people go out on trips expecting to get in and out under their own power and don’t go expecting to rely on SAR. Some states have started making clauses for negligence where they can charge for rescue in cases where the person went out severely unprepared.

 

[Near Nyquist]

And Just in case you are interested
This from the victim

 

[neonorchid]

WA SAR is completely free since we imagine most people go out on trips expecting to get in and out under their own power and don’t go expecting to rely on SAR. Some states have started making clauses for negligence where they can charge for rescue in cases where the person went out severely unprepared.

^ "New Hampshire, Maine, Hawai’i, and Oregon have wide discretion to bill wayward adventurers for SAR."
"Colorado and Vermont can bill people who travel out of bounds at ski areas, and Idaho can charge hikers who venture into areas closed to the public."
...

^ https://www.outsideonline.com/1986496/search-and-rescue-public-service-not-exactly

 

[KevinF]

New Hampshire has a “hike safe” card; I forget the exact details but I believe the premise is that card carriers won’t be billed for their rescue if they were not found negligent. And the card is cheap; $10 annual fee.

I’ve heard that Stowe Mountain Search and Rescue services are free, although if that is the case I have no idea how they would be funded. I have not been inclined to test their policy.

 

[DanoT]

The problem with billing the rescued skiers is that it leads them to trying to self rescue to avoid paying $ and that could lead to failure or at best delay calling for help which could very likely expose SAR members to greater risk when they finally get to attempt a rescue.

 

[Ken_R]

The problem with billing the rescued skiers is that it leads them to trying to self rescue to avoid paying $ and that could lead to failure or at best delay calling for help which could very likely expose SAR members to greater risk when they finally get to attempt a rescue.

^^^This, there is a fine balance between discouraging negligence and unpreparedness and not discouraging calling SAR.

 

[CalG]

The line between rescue and recovery is painful all around.

 

[Analisa]

^^^This, there is a fine balance between discouraging negligence and unpreparedness and not discouraging calling SAR.

I don't think anyone goes out expecting to rely on SAR. Rescuer safety is paramount, which limits how much they're willing/able to do in a rescue. It takes a ton of time - even with 2-way communication gear like Garmin InReach - to get a clear understanding of what the situation & need are, get volunteer teams assembled & deployed, and the victim located. An acquaintance of mine died after waiting 5 hours for a rescue on Mt Hood - just above a ski resort and less than 2 hours from Portland. I can't imagine how much longer the wait gets in more isolated areas.

A few SAR organizations codify and analyze their accident reports, and I've read through a few years' worth of the American Alpine Journal's accident reports and SAR presence has never been cited as part of the narrative. I've had a close call situation where I was able to self-rescue after 3-4 hours, but I was really dreading it if I had to call it in. There are plenty of people on the internet who are happy to pick apart your mistakes and question whether the call was appropriate. Might not be financial, but there's definitely still a cost associated with getting rescued.

 

[Ken_R]

I think in Colorado they do a good job of combating ignorance and unpreparedness. Some of it is done by outdoor enthusiasts while out and about and in forums like these but a lot is done with signage and education / awareness.

Still, crap happens and its good to know that the counties and the state have the resources to take care of the situation.

 

[Primoz]

A recent story in the Sierra has me thinking about the possibility of an expensive rescue and who pays for it.

Those comments are pretty much copy'n'paste of comments under news articles about similar things around here. Every time there's news article about someone being hurt in mountains, someone being in avi or anything similar, there's whole bunch of couch potatoes asking "who the hell will be paying for this rescue and those people's dangerous life style". Of course noone asks who the hell will be paying for medical care those fu*s will need because of their life style that includes beer, couch and tv only.
Now a bit of explanation from this (opposite for most of you) side of ocean, to get my bitching, and being sort of sensitive to this It depends from country to country, but for example in Slovenia, SAR (either mountain through Mountain rescue service, or anywhere else through police and other services) is free. Always and for everyone, no matter how stupid you are and no matter how stupid things you do. When you fu**k things up colossally, those guys will do everything to save you. For free. Always!
If we concentrate on mountains and backcountry only, it's in domain of Mountain rescue service. Guys working there are volunteers, earning their money in normal job, and when "duty calls" they either get free pass from their employer or take holidays to come and save you. Only exception is heli unit, where pilots and winch operator are either from police or army (depending which heli is being used). Even doctors in those units are doing this in their free time and not as part of job. Of course equipment etc is paid by government. So most of couch potatoes think saving someone in mountains costs millions. It actually does, as hour of heli is about 6000eur, plus equipment plus trainings plus god knows what, but we pay whole bunch of taxes, so I agree certain things need to be given back to people who pay that.
On the other side, also all medical care, from getting aspirin because you have light cold, to brain surgery is free. Including all medical care and treatment needed when your body stops functioning properly because you were drinking 10 beers every day and all you moved was from couch to toilet. But for that, noone of people complaining why the hell their taxes need to be used for saving some idiot in mountains, cares, as that's their right.
Now to make things even worse for those complainers, most of us who do any kind of sport, especially stuff in backcountry have extra insurances (only about 100eur/year so nothing much but still) and at least some 20% of all are one way or the other somehow included into previously mentioned Mountain rescue service, so things are not so bright for those complainers, yet as I wrote, under every single article about accident in mountains there's endless discussion about "who will pay".
For other countries in Europe it depends. Some have it free, some have it free if you have proper insurance (also for Austria it's only 60eur and it's valid worldwide and can be purchased by any EU citizen, maybe even non-EU citizen). But no matter what, they always bring you down first, and only then you might need to deal with "who will pay".
As for who is responsible for backcountry mishaps... only you yourself. Or at least that's how it's suppose to be.