Which way do we turn our legs?

Discussion in 'Ski School' started by Josh Matta, May 13, 2017.

  1. Josh Matta

    Josh Matta Making fresh tracks Instructor

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    Lets just take a right turn....

    am I turning my legs right or am I turning my legs left? What is the cause and effect of each? Do peoples perception of which they turn their legs change from person to person....

    If you think your turn your legs right to go right place post video of that...

    If you think you turn your legs left to go right please post video of that......

    If you think you turn your legs right then left to go right post that video......

    what way do you think, I think I am turning my legs in this video below, heck or any video I have ever posted.



    your video and your description would be greatly appreciated..... if you want to participate at least stand up with you toes pointed to the right, and trying turning your legs both ways, do not go into this discussion blind.
     
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  2. Bogatyr

    Bogatyr Chasing the snow Skier

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    Juicy skiing ! And the woods look familiar.
     
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  3. graham418

    graham418 Out on the slopes Skier

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    No one wants to take the bait? :P
     
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  4. Thread Starter
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    Josh Matta

    Josh Matta Making fresh tracks Instructor

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    seems that way, does nt?

    after watching the hip following being portrayed by the perspective D team member in my slow line fast thread, the what does angulation feel like thread....I figured it was time to start trying to explain how our legs actually turn.
     
  5. Zentune

    Zentune Getting on the lift Instructor

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    Sorry Josh, it's vertical :D....but i made sure that she (one of the level 2's I trained to level 3) knows that in the future, all vids are to be horizontal!!

    From part of another training session I was leading for some level 3 candidates, focus on slow and rounder as they both tended to get the runaway and subsequent loss of control effect...



    Separation at the hip and foot, at least to initiate. I've got some RoM issues and left/right imbalances that I'm working on in the off season as an aside...

    zenny
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2017
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  6. Kneale Brownson

    Kneale Brownson Out on the slopes Instructor

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    What's the question, Josh? Of course you're turning your legs. You ski well, and turning the legs is one of the fundamentals of good skiing.
     
  7. Thread Starter
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    Josh Matta

    Josh Matta Making fresh tracks Instructor

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    the question is which way am I turning my legs....
     
  8. Kneale Brownson

    Kneale Brownson Out on the slopes Instructor

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    You mean which mechanics are you employing?
     
  9. Thread Starter
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    Josh Matta

    Josh Matta Making fresh tracks Instructor

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    Me, what others are employing, what your employing....
     
  10. john petersen

    john petersen working through minutia to find the big picture! Moderator Instructor

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    Im just slightly confused by the question.

    I try to think about progressive movements that incorporate a good skill blend. different conditions dictate different DIRT. In the vid, light powder in varied terrain....boy this is hard not to do MA.....what was the question again?

    ;)

    JP
     
  11. fatbob

    fatbob Out on the slopes Skier

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    OK while this is a massive heffalump trap I'll bite - I turn my legs in the direction of the turn.

    Except I don't. Turning legs implies they initiate, my legs go where my skis have been tipped and weighted to go. I can point my inside knee say aggressively and this is likely to promote a high edge angle and a more acute turn. So "turning" and "leg" probably need to be properly defined.
     
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  12. LiquidFeet

    LiquidFeet Out on the slopes Instructor

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    Josh, you are fishing for people to address countersteering, right?
    @Jamt has provided the best descriptions of this thing that happens when one tips the feet downhill at the ankles.

    So there's actively tipping at the ankles, there's actively flexing at one or more of the joints at ankle, knee, and hip, there's actively moving the hips over, there's actively rotating the femurs at the hip socket (aka pointing the knees) to turn the skis when they are flat enough to do that, there's actively rotating the feet and thus the skis when they are flat enough to do that (aka foot steering). There may be more possibilities that I'm forgetting, or different ways of describing some of these.

    Several of those things can happen in a blended fashion. Your video doesn't give a close enough look at your feet to clearly see what you are doing at the foot level. So I can't tell particularly if ankle tipping is happening inside the boot, causing the new inside foot to point momentarily in the opposite direction of the new turn.

    Is that what you are guiding people to talk about, or have I guessed wrong?
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2017
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  13. john petersen

    john petersen working through minutia to find the big picture! Moderator Instructor

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    okay....lets talk about mindset for a minute...turn transition. end of one, beginning of the next...am I on the right track?.......

    if your hips and center of mass are moving over your feet perpendicular to the slope and your legs are turning under a stable upper body that is skiing into and out of a countered relationship with it......any you finesse your transition by moving foragonally with good flexion and extension which promotes good early edge engagement, then you finish left to go right...

    sorry, I kinda engineered my answer a bit.....but thats really what I think. I dont have any vids, though...sorry!

    ;)
     
  14. BornToSki683

    BornToSki683 Putting on skis Pass Pulled

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    i am not sure what Josh is trying to get to here but I think if your feet are active and tipping to new edges then the femurs are rotating in the direction of the new turn. The feet can do a great deal of counter steering to avoid twisting the skis.
     
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  15. Thread Starter
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    Josh Matta

    Josh Matta Making fresh tracks Instructor

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    so this thread never really took off....I mean it was the end of ski season.

    Lets rephrase the question.

    Which way do you perceive your legs turning? or which way do your students perceive their legs turning?

    @LiquidFeet your welcome to chime in, heck I encourage it, I hope I am not making up what I saw in the bombers group today(12/7) when I asked the impossible of them, which was to tip their feet right and turn their feet left and instantly saw leg steering with no or much less hip twisting. I bet in some way this goes along with @epic s inside foot pullback thread. I am also curious how it felt to you as well.

    I am just going to go out and say it. I think the notion that we perceive are legs twisting into a turn is actually wrong and not how the vast majority of people perceive the fundamental of the legs turning more, than the upper body. The way I personally perceive and what I have been teaching for about 2 years is on right edges to try to turn your feet left.

    Before you armchair quarterback at me, please go try it on snow. I would take video but its an internal feeling of how you perceive your movement. I think the vast majority of dedicated to getting better skiers who are chronic hip twisters have been told phase such as "turn your leg where you want to go", move your hips against the skis so they dont twist, or PMTS you need more CA/CB. When the reality is with out understanding how most humans perceive their own movements its impossible to teach supposed "leg" steering.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  16. Tony S

    Tony S aka qcanoe Skier

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    Well crap, now I have an excuse to ski this weekend!
     
  17. CalG

    CalG Out on the slopes Skier

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    To initiate a turn, I turn my legs on skis the same way I turn the handlebars on my motorbike.

    Push left, turn left.

    Tip 'em. and they will turn.... now, how to get that CoM inside the turn?.........
     
  18. pchewn

    pchewn Out on the slopes Skier

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    My legs don't turn, they tip and bend. They tip in the direction of the turn and the lower leg bends forward while the upper leg bends back (rearward).
     
  19. CalG

    CalG Out on the slopes Skier

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    What is a "pre turn" when starting out in powder?
     
  20. pchewn

    pchewn Out on the slopes Skier

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    Ummm I don't know. I never mentioned "pre turn". If I had to guess, it would be the turn prior to the current turn.....
     

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