International (Europe/Japan/Southern Hemisphere) Where to live/ski in and around the Pyrenees?

[skibob]

My wife and I have a long term plan where we relocate to the general vicinity of the Pyrenees. There are lots of reasons why that are not necessarily ski related. But she is fluent in Spanish and French (and has lived in other parts of France for an extended time in the past) and I speak Spanish well and am learning French. So we aren't even particularly committed to one side or the other. Andorra, on the other hand, is not in the cards.

One thing that is very important to me, of course, is the skiing. (But no, I wouldn't prefer the Alps, thanks for asking). So I am generally interested in people's experience of the Pyrenees, both from a skiing perspective and from a more general perspective.

Part of the reason for posting this is that we will be traveling through the area in March. Its a mixed mission of visiting friends, having fun, and actually scoping out some of these areas. So your thoughts could potentially shape our trip plans and our future.

We are very fond of Alpine towns. But it isn't clear whether we would live there year around; or that we would have a vacation home there but live within a reasonable drive (2-3 hours); or live within a short trip (an hour or less, with bonus for good train service). She likes to be able to get away from the extreme cold and snow (although she too skis). And neither of us much like heat (temps much above 80F).

Bonus for hot springs mentions, both formal and in the wild.

 

[Rod9301]

I spent two years in luz saint sauveur in the French Pyrenees.

Bareges la mongie is 15 minutes away. Incredible resort. If you like to hike a bit, i counted 80+couloirs. Lots of powder, very few people ski it.

Inexpensive, good food.

Our kids went to school there to learn French.

Very good experience, i would move there in a heartbeat.

Luz is at 2200 ft, it show in town maybe once a year, do you don't have to deal with snow on a daily basis.

 

[scott43]

I've always had my eye on Girona....

 

[skibob]

I've always had my eye on Girona....

Yeah . . . me too! Part of our itinerary is definitely going to be meeting up with some friends in or around Barcelona. And Girona may substitute or be on the menu as well.

 

[pchewn]

<<<<==== That picture is at Baqueira Beret ski area in Spain. I really enjoyed skiing there. This is the only area in the Pyrenees that I've been to.

 

[skibob]

I spent two years in luz saint sauveur in the French Pyrenees.

Bareges la mongie is 15 minutes away. Incredible resort. If you like to hike a bit, i counted 80+couloirs. Lots of powder, very few people ski it.

Inexpensive, good food.

Our kids went to school there to learn French.

Very good experience, i would move there in a heartbeat.

Luz is at 2200 ft, it show in town maybe once a year, do you don't have to deal with snow on a daily basis.

My children have learned French here (one of only two public French schools in the US). I'm the odd one out, but working on it. Going to check this out. I've scoped out a few places like this. Low enough to not be objectionable to her but in the mountains and close enough to skiing to be convenient. But that one wasn't on my list.

 

[skibob]

<<<<==== That picture is at Baqueira Beret ski area in Spain. I really enjoyed skiing there. This is the only area in the Pyrenees that I've been to.

That one is on my radar. Reasonable distance to Barcelona/Girona.

 

[Tony]

Can we come visit you? We spent a night in Girona after a couple of nights in Barcelona in early Oct. about 10 years ago. We were there because we had an early Ryan Air flight to Ibiza the next morning. We were surprised by how much history there was including the wall around the old town, the Cathedral and the Jewish heritage.

 

[Bad Bob]

Are you guys talking about the Basque region?
I don't know the geography of that region well enough but do know that part of their region is in the Perenesse.

I so want to be a Basque when I grow up.

 

[skibob]

Are you guys talking about the Basque region?
I don't know the geography of that region well enough but do know that part of their region is in the Perenesse.

I so want to be a Basque when I grow up.

Yeah, the Basque region encompasses the Western Pyrenees as well as foothills on both sides of the range. Pamplona is kind of considered the capitol of Basque country. Our friends (in a small town near Lourdes, France) are Basque. Its a great culture. Love of food, friendly, welcoming, but also fiercely independent and willful. We aren't limiting ourselves to the Basque region, but yes, it is part of the area we are considering.

 

[Swede]

Bequira Beret is 3-3.5 hr drive from Barca if you fancy a larger city for living. Fantastic city with beaches in town. Depends on what you guys do for a livin’... Tolousse on the French side, no experience from T so can’t say...

 

[AlpsSkidad]

Bonjour Skibob,
My information is more from a general perspective, as we have spent the past 3 school years in France so that our children can learn French and see the culture of Europe. We spend Summers back home in the US.
I don't know your work/financial/etc situation, but make sure you educate yourselves on the French tax system as it pertains to you, including if you plan to own a home in France. The French love their taxes and it never seems to end. They also just changed the tax laws towards expats that are owners in overseas businesses as well. So for those entrepreneurs that own or have significant ownership in US based firms, there can be significant tax burdens. Additionally if you have assets in France including homes, cars, etc, that exceed a certain value, you will pay annual taxes on those assets ( "ISF wealth tax"), which isn't deductible nor can you credit US assets/taxes against this burden. Ultimately, if you are somehow a fiscal resident, they will give you a 5 year delay from the end of the year of your first entry to France but then you will pay the French government taxes on ALL of your worldwide assets. So if you have US homes, cars, bank accounts, 401K, anything of value worldwide, etc- you will pay the French government taxes based on the value of those assets as well as whatever you have/make in France.
That said, we are leaving when the 5 year window comes up for us.

Cant weigh in on the skiing, as we have always skied the Alps and not the Pyrenees. Good luck with your journey!

 

[Bolder]

We live in France and love it. If money were no object and I wanted to live in the Pyrénées region I would choose Biarritz in France or Girona in Spain. Or if I needed to work more and be near an airport, Barcelona. I've never lived in the area but on our visits I've found the actual mountains to be remote in a way that the Alps aren't. However that might be a plus...

 

[skibob]

Bonjour Skibob,
My information is more from a general perspective, as we have spent the past 3 school years in France so that our children can learn French and see the culture of Europe. We spend Summers back home in the US.
I don't know your work/financial/etc situation, but make sure you educate yourselves on the French tax system as it pertains to you, including if you plan to own a home in France. The French love their taxes and it never seems to end. They also just changed the tax laws towards expats that are owners in overseas businesses as well. So for those entrepreneurs that own or have significant ownership in US based firms, there can be significant tax burdens. Additionally if you have assets in France including homes, cars, etc, that exceed a certain value, you will pay annual taxes on those assets ( "ISF wealth tax"), which isn't deductible nor can you credit US assets/taxes against this burden. Ultimately, if you are somehow a fiscal resident, they will give you a 5 year delay from the end of the year of your first entry to France but then you will pay the French government taxes on ALL of your worldwide assets. So if you have US homes, cars, bank accounts, 401K, anything of value worldwide, etc- you will pay the French government taxes based on the value of those assets as well as whatever you have/make in France.
That said, we are leaving when the 5 year window comes up for us.

Cant weigh in on the skiing, as we have always skied the Alps and not the Pyrenees. Good luck with your journey!

The ISF was recently changed. The Macron administration severely restricted it. Now called "IFI" it is much more limited than in the past. This is brand new, so if you have any interest in staying, you might wish to consult a local tax expert.

It is now limited to real estate and companies in which you own 10% or more interest. Still unusual in the world of taxes, for sure. I think that a properly structured trust would protect assets outside of France, especially in the US. Of course the French government would treat disbursements as income for tax purposes, but that would only be the disbursements. Tax on real estate in France would be pretty unavoidable. Its essentially like our property tax. Except I believe you also pay a property tax.

Its well worth knowing (and I appreciate your post causing me to refamiliarize myself), but its not nearly as severe as it used to be.

https://www.french-property.com/guides/france/finance-taxation/taxation/wealth-tax/

 

[AlpsSkidad]

The ISF was recently changed. The Macron administration severely restricted it. Now called "IFI" it is much more limited than in the past. This is brand new, so if you have any interest in staying, you might wish to consult a local tax expert.

It is now limited to real estate and companies in which you own 10% or more interest. Still unusual in the world of taxes, for sure. I think that a properly structured trust would protect assets outside of France, especially in the US. Of course the French government would treat disbursements as income for tax purposes, but that would only be the disbursements. Tax on real estate in France would be pretty unavoidable. Its essentially like our property tax. Except I believe you also pay a property tax.

Its well worth knowing (and I appreciate your post causing me to refamiliarize myself), but its not nearly as severe as it used to be.

https://www.french-property.com/guides/france/finance-taxation/taxation/wealth-tax/

Yes, I forgot, they did just change the ISF to IFI for next year- that means it is taxing all worldwide property only. Unfortunately you can't hide it in a trust either, as the law specifically states this. (and on your French tax declaration, you must divulge all foreign trusts, bank accounts etc that you have any interest in. While we can remove our cars and "stuff" from the calculation, we are still subject to an enormous tax bill for this tax as we own our home in France.
Yes you are right, the French also have separate property taxes- "taxe d'habitation, and taxe fonciere" on top of this burden.
Either way, we will be leaving in a couple more years. It does not make fiscal sense for us to stay with the current law in place.

 

[skibob]

So I am going to revive this old thread. We are steadily moving toward making it happen. Its looking increasingly likely that it will be the Toulouse area. So the big question is, where to ski if living in Toulouse?

Ski resorts that look to be closest:

• Les Monts d'Olmes,
• Ski Nistos,
• Station du Mortis,
• Luchon Superbagneres,
• Bourg d'Oueil,
• Peyragudes,
• l'Etang de Lers,
• Gouliet,
• Gouzet-Neige,
• Beille

Basically, the central French Pyrenees. These are all around 1:45 to 2 hours from Toulouse. Farther than I'd like to be, but closer than I am now. (3:30 to 4 hours typically).

Have I missed any? Does anybody have any comment on any of these. Or on skiing from Toulouse in general?

 

[Jacob]

So I am going to revive this old thread. We are steadily moving toward making it happen. Its looking increasingly likely that it will be the Toulouse area. So the big question is, where to ski if living in Toulouse?

Ski resorts that look to be closest:

• Les Monts d'Olmes,
• Ski Nistos,
• Station du Mortis,
• Luchon Superbagneres,
• Bourg d'Oueil,
• Peyragudes,
• l'Etang de Lers,
• Gouliet,
• Gouzet-Neige,
• Beille

Basically, the central French Pyrenees. These are all around 1:45 to 2 hours from Toulouse. Farther than I'd like to be, but closer than I am now. (3:30 to 4 hours typically).

Have I missed any? Does anybody have any comment on any of these. Or on skiing from Toulouse in general?

Don't forget that you can get into Andorra and the Spanish side of the Pyrenees from there as well.

 

[skibob]

Don't forget that you can get into Andorra and the Spanish side of the Pyrenees from there as well.

Definitely. ANd Spain doesn't even require a border crossing. Still, my kids are going to be in school much of the year. So I am looking for the quick daytrip during the week. 2 hours each way is pushing it, but doable.

 

[Jacob]

Definitely. ANd Spain doesn't even require a border crossing. Still, my kids are going to be in school much of the year. So I am looking for the quick daytrip during the week. 2 hours each way is pushing it, but doable.

According to Google, it takes about 2:30 to get from central Toulouse to Baqueira-Beret, so that might be just outside of your day-trip distance. But, it shouldn't be too bad for a weekend trip.

 

[skibob]

According to Google, it takes about 2:30 to get from central Toulouse to Baqueira-Beret, so that might be just outside of your day-trip distance. But, it shouldn't be too bad for a weekend trip.

And I've heard great things about Baqueira. It may just be that I can't get quite close enough for a day trip yet at this point in my life. The kid's schooling situation takes precedent.