My point is that the original post said that people are moving to a quiver of bikes just like people have quivers of skis. The cost of having a quiver of bikes greatly exceeds the cost of a quiver of skis, making it much more prohibitive. Bikes also take up a lot more space than skis, further reducing the accessibility of a bike quiver.
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Where are MTBs going?
- Thread starter Jwrags
- Start date
My point is that the original post said that people are moving to a quiver of bikes just like people have quivers of skis. The cost of having a quiver of bikes greatly exceeds the cost of a quiver of skis, making it much more prohibitive. Bikes also take up a lot more space than skis, further reducing the accessibility of a bike quiver.
I suppose when you're blowing $4k on a bike, what's another $500, true enough. Most people already have their own saddle/pedals/grips when buying a new bike. I think it's just generally about the money. If you can get 90% there for 70% of the money, do you do that? Or do you go all in and pick all the parts.
And do you need multiple bikes? I don't do lift serviced dh. It's anathema to my riding experience. But if someone has the space, time and money for 6 bikes, knock yourself out. I just don't know how many of those people there are.
Well if we are talking about "me" then I would buy the frame from my LBS, explain what I am doing and then build it out myself and then bring to the LBS to adjust and inspect. I don't like wasting parts. Wheels are generally the biggest waste of money on bikes, Yeti, Santa Cruz and a couple of others are getting it right; allowing you to buy Enve's or other premium wheelsets as upgrades at discounted prices (although they aren't crediting you back anything for the stock wheel) with custom colors to match. Obviously, this puts most bikes in the 7-8K range but they are selling a bunch of them.
there's a small bike shop in NJ that does a lot of custom build-outs. He does a good business with this model. he doesn't care if you want to supply the parts, he does just fine on the labor.
BTW- Number of Bikes? one townie, one Road and one Mtn.
There does come a point... For that $7k Cervelo I can get a nice R6 track bike...
For sure some of it does depend on demographics and where you are. Obviously I'm doing my own builds a lot of the time. I built up my road frame for around $600 with a 105 group and Mavic rims. Price is primary for me really because this is really about fitness, not speed. 105 is plenty decent for most people.
If you're in a place where you can keep the lights on with that kind of business model, all the power to ya. I, personally, would much rather spend my days (if I were still in the business..may be again one day..who knows..) building custom bikes from scratch. It's way more interesting and fun than whacking out 20 or 30 bikes a day from a box. But at $50/hr, building a custom bike can become expensive. Usually takes a day at least. So add that $400 onto the price. Maybe 2 days if things go south on you. With the internet and ease of shipping these days, maybe it becomes more possible. This is my retirement gig..don't spread it around too much!!
Okay, I think I see what's going on here (with regard to what I thought was both of you completely missing my point).
I took the above quote to mean that each person would own multiple bikes. Can you see how I would get that from the quote? So I was picturing the difference between the barrier to having a ski quiver vs. the barrier to having a bike quiver. It seemed like a crazy position. As you guys seem to agree.
well most people dont need or want an xc, bike, trail bike and enduro bike. My trance for instance can do very well on all 3 really. There's plenty of people who just ride a specific type of trail or terrain.
For sure some of it does depend on demographics and where you are. Obviously I'm doing my own builds a lot of the time. I built up my road frame for around $600 with a 105 group and Mavic rims. Price is primary for me really because this is really about fitness, not speed. 105 is plenty decent for most people.
If you're in a place where you can keep the lights on with that kind of business model, all the power to ya. I, personally, would much rather spend my days (if I were still in the business..may be again one day..who knows..) building custom bikes from scratch. It's way more interesting and fun than whacking out 20 or 30 bikes a day from a box. But at $50/hr, building a custom bike can become expensive. Usually takes a day at least. So add that $400 onto the price. Maybe 2 days if things go south on you. With the internet and ease of shipping these days, maybe it becomes more possible. This is my retirement gig..don't spread it around too much!!
The owner of that shop is passionate about all things bikes. He does't care if he sells his least expensive or most expensive bikes, he just cares about biking and making sure his customers are stoked. He sells plenty of value bikes but wont sell junk. He and his wife are true gems.
yep, I am one of those folks who really appreciates my bikes (an skis for that matter) and I'm a a total geek about technology and performance. I clean and lube my bike after every ride BTW. Not many people do that. I dont need all the bike I have but I do appreciate it. I research just about every part on the bike LOL
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What drives me up the wall is when you go in and they have a build and you ask about just moving over some of your parts, and they want to charge you for the whole kit anyway and then you can do what you want with the extras. I guess I can see how this is preferable from the LBS side, but it's crappy as a consumer. Definitely pushes me toward frame and custom just to not be wasteful, although at that point I'm wasting money. And anyway, in what world is the stem the bike comes with the stem that will fit me just right?
Apologies for terrible sentence structure.
Who would have a bike quiver...that's just nonsense!
In order to know where they're going, let's see where things started (more or less)
1982 Specialized StumpJumper
1982 Specialized StumpJumper
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.. That's not a shop? Wow. So, like I said, most people don't have that kind of room.
Yes, I love the idea of electronic shifting, but needs to become wireless. THAT is an improvement that will really make a difference. Get rid of the wires altogether. And why not brakes too?
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I'm not sure about wireless. It means you'd need a battery in every component. The new RED group is wireless though. For brakes, I don't think I want brake by wire. My brakes are too important for that.
Have you seen Magura's wireless dropper post?
Have you seen Magura's wireless dropper post?
it's complicated..
If you look at it from the shop's point of view, people expect a certain level or model of stem. So if you go switching them around, you have to have stock on the stem so you can mix and match sizes. Now take that stem and multiply by 10 or 20 or 30 different stems that come on different bikes. So that's a lot of overhead. If people don't care about brand, it makes life a lot easier..but that's not frequently the case. If you do a lot of volume in two or three models you could do it easily. Beyond that, shops get antsy. Personally, I totally agree with you. Fit should be part of the sale and the cost should be eaten by the shop within reason.Our shop was a mid-size shop in Toronto. We sold, probably, 1000 to 1500 bikes a year. Of those, probably 10% were what you'd consider a top-level bike. So that's, what, 125 bikes a year say? So if you're stocking a ton of stems for 125 bikes, it's tough to justify. Especially when they all have different brands and models of stems. And it can be tough to sell new old stock stuff. So you pull off some tires or a stem. To try and sell that without packaging you generally have to sell at a discount. And people are leery so they are tough to move. So you end up eating it. That's my experience anyway. It's much easier and cleaner to just sell the package and not worry about it.
Why would the FIS want boots wider than skis? You think they're considering racing on soft powder instead of iced courses?
it's complicated..
Our shop was a mid-size shop in Toronto. We sold, probably, 1000 to 1500 bikes a year. Of those, probably 10% were what you'd consider a top-level bike. So that's, what, 125 bikes a year say? So if you're stocking a ton of stems for 125 bikes, it's tough to justify. Especially when they all have different brands and models of stems. And it can be tough to sell new old stock stuff. So you pull off some tires or a stem. To try and sell that without packaging you generally have to sell at a discount. And people are leery so they are tough to move. So you end up eating it. That's my experience anyway. It's much easier and cleaner to just sell the package and not worry about it.
Oh, yeah, I get that. But when I come in with my own stem, or whatever it is, from my old bike, and they still make me eat the cost of the stem they'd chosen ... I guess there's an argument here that you are eating into their profits, but as you said - they weren't going to stock what I wanted, anyway.
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Great post. IMHO, Where we're going is more like skis, where we use the best type, size of ski for the terrain and need. We now have XC (cross country), trail, enduro and DH bikes. basically, it comes down to where and what you are riding on. Like to climb, like to ride fast, do a lot of rowdy descents, lots of flowy? Each of these bikes offers a different class of performance much like skis.
27.5's are not a compromise, they fill a specific need and use; they climb and roll over stuff close to a 29 but corner and handle more like a 6'r. The 29'rs are evolving quickly and this years (an 2017's) represent a new class of 9'rs with slacker heads, shorter stems and modified Geo (yes, longer TT's, shorter CS's with longer wheel bases and lower BB"s although if you use the laws of physics, lower BB's aren't necessarily better) . The pro reviews of these new 9'rs are claiming much improved handling and descending ability but still supreme at climbing. 27.5's ( AKA 650b) are also getting better and represent many of the geo changes @Josh Matta was talking about 3 years ago. Again, longer TT's, shorter stems, shorter CS's and longer Wheelbases.
We've discussed gearing and although simple is better, I am not sold yet on the 1-bys gearing yet but many are. I still need my 24... But that's another issue
Fat tires are called "Plus" (tire width of 2.7-3.50 ) and I have not ridden any yet but I know my 26mm internal rims make my 2.35 tires down right plump and I love the result. Going to plus does add weight; I would guess 2 pounds if not more. For those who climb a lot, this is an issue but the gains in roll resistance and deflection may outweigh the weight (pun intended). Heres more info http://www.gearinstitute.com/gear-n...lus-size-mountain-bikes-are-changing-the-game
Wheels: wheels are evolving as well. Getting wider for greater stability, less deflection, stiffer and shedding weight. Carbon wheelsets are now within the budget of many and aluminum wheels are much improved too. Getting damn close to the performance of Carbon (but not all carbon used in frames or wheels is the same! )
Boost hubs: the current 142 rear and 100 on the front is going to 148 and 110. Why? Well, read this or you can just say they want to sell you something. I think the boost on 9'rs will have the biggest impact but the boost on a 27.5 will allow shorter CS's (although longer CS's climb better) http://enduro-mtb.com/en/tech-talk-whats-the-boost-standard-all-about/
So best value? Value is relative.
Its funny to me that years ago when I said what was going to happen that everyone was like no way......well here we are...
BTW longer chainstays are only really needed with a slack seat tube, as the seat tubes get steeper chain stay lengths can get shorter and will not affect climbing performance.
What I think we will see.
I still do not think bikes have gotten as long in the front, short in the rear, and as slack in the front yet. I see bike like the Geometron as the geo that will be settled on for every day MTBs eventually.
Frames will be designed around 170-200mm droppers even in smaller sizes.
27.5 plus will be end up being the main wheel size, due to its increased traction on hard surfaces, trail dampening, and the way it helps the suspension iron out small hits.