When are Skis Outdated?

[Rod9301]

It's also that ski manufacturers change the skis for what the marketing department perceives will sell more skis.

For example, volkl discontinued the katana a few years ago because it was not selling well.

I still ski them, and i would be hard pressed to find a newer ski that i like as much. 10 year old design.

 

[crgildart]

Re a 5 year old ski - I'd say of course not - all of my skis were designed at least 5 years ago and I've only skied one ski since which has made me think I could be missing out on something if I didn't change up (and heresy it wasn't the Renoun!). At the margin if your 5 year old ski was a hangover design type from the early 2000s (thinking some of the piste K2s maybe) you could be missing out on something

Most 5 year old skis were outdated around 1997. Same goes for the day after metal edges became mainstream.

https://skiinghistory.org/history/evolution-ski-shape

Other than condition specific variations, I don't think anything's come around this century that instantly made everything prior to it obsolete. Incremental changes past 10 years are pretty minor in comparison.

 

[Philpug]

We forget how good most skis have been in the past decade plus...I say most but there were some dogs, especially when we were evolving with change like the shapes and with rocker. But overall a ski that was exceptional 10 years ago is still damn good and has stood the test of time.

 

[Sibhusky]

I did manage to convert over to my Rictor replacement skis, arguably the same skis, by the close (!) of last season. But the Rictors will still be in the mix at the start of next season because they require less out of me. The newer ski, whose name I keep having to look up (there's this mental block -- oh, here it is, "iKonic") is much more demanding. It rewards aggression and I start out pretty timid. Probably I should have gotten the non ti version. But there's no huge leap here like going from a straight ski to a shaped ski. It's just a different ski. I have hiccups going from my soft wide skis to my stiffer skinny skis that are larger than from older skis to newer skis. I do have huge issues going from skis tuned by myself to skis apparently not tuned ever like those owned by friends. I usually can't believe they ski the things.

 

[David Chaus]

OK, I’ve got a pair of Stockli Spirit SC’s from early 2000’s, and a pair of K2 Outlaws from 2008-9. I’d have no problem skiing either one. Probably neither one skis as well as they would when they were fresh-pressed, but they’re still pretty fun and lot of life left in them.

I have a pair of Head Rev 85‘s and Head Rev 105’s, both of those are from 2012 IIRC. Probably the 85 has more days on it, I’d still be fine skiing them.

My newer Renoun’s are more front-side focused, and definitely an upgrade in performance, so I have little use for the older skis. My Billy Goats are a completely different kind of ski, for powder and crud, and probably won’t see as much use. They are also really well made and I will probably have them for 10 years, maybe longer.

As @Philpug and others have pointed out, the age and reliability and safety of the bindings mounted on the skis is probably of greater concern.

 

[ski otter 2]

Are 5 year old skis in good condition outdated, or are skis evolving slowly and should be good until a big breakthrough?

I've owned a lot of skis. Usually they just get obsolete ("outdated"), rather than wear out: does that ski still have a "wow" factor for me, or not?

Sometimes I'm not really conscious of this, but I just stop pulling that ski out for the day. It's a bit unpredictable just when a ski goes unused or gets outdated. Maybe it mostly has to do with what other skis are out there: does the ski still do just as well or better than other skis in its category or width? That probably decides it, over time.

I like to demo as many new models as possible, every year, to get a sense of ski improvements. I already have multiple skis I like in each general ski category, but they all ski differently. Usually, I add a new pair when I notice that the ski I'm demoing or borrowing has a "wow" factor, that is, it does one or more things differently, and better, than any ski I already own or have tried. For me to want to buy it, a ski has to have that sort of improvement to it, that "wow" factor, that puts a big smile on my face. Some years, there may be only a ski or two I experience this way. And other years, there may be too many, for me, groundbreaking skis to be able to or want to buy all of them. (And overall, to me, skis are getting more dialed in all the time!)

By the same token, I keep - and use - a pair of skis if it does not become worn out, obsolete, or "outdated." If a ski still does at least one thing better for me than any other ski I own, and maybe better than any other ski I've tried or know of, that ski is a keeper, not obsolete. So there are skis I still use regularly that are more than a dozen years old. (The Stockli SR XXL 78 is a ski that comes to mind.)

Since I do my own tuning, including base flattening, edge prep and waxing, my skis don't tend to wear out very often. (Especially if they are Stocklis.) Having a lot of skis by now also means I spread out my days on a lot of them, and they are that much less likely to wear out before they become obsolete, if that is what happens to them.

Seems like we are living in a golden age of skis right now, whatever else is happening.

 

[Wasatchman]

I did manage to convert over to my Rictor replacement skis, arguably the same skis, by the close (!) of last season. But the Rictors will still be in the mix at the start of next season because they require less out of me. The newer ski, whose name I keep having to look up (there's this mental block -- oh, here it is, "iKonic") is much more demanding. It rewards aggression and I start out pretty timid. Probably I should have gotten the non ti version. But there's no huge leap here like going from a straight ski to a shaped ski. It's just a different ski. I have hiccups going from my soft wide skis to my stiffer skinny skis that are larger than from older skis to newer skis. I do have huge issues going from skis tuned by myself to skis apparently not tuned ever like those owned by friends. I usually can't believe they ski the things.

Which ikonic ski do you have? I have a 2016 K2 ikonic 85ti that I think for my taste is the worst ski I've tried in the last 5 years. In fact, only ski I've been on last 5 years that I pretty much hate. Reason I ask is maybe it's not the metal but the ski you don't like. I think I've been on my 2016 ikonics like 10 days I dislike them so much. Bought them without demoing because they were cheap. Lesson learned. Essentially brand new skis and they are my rock skis.

So when you posted about the ikonic it got my attention.

 

[Sibhusky]

2019 iKonic 84Ti

You know I don't think there are such things as bad skis. There's certainly skis that 1) when you first get on them feel different than what you are accustomed to and require you to change your technique to appreciate them, 2) are better for conditions other than what you're on, 3) that requirement a heavier or lighter skier or a stronger skier for their flex. Generally I've found that all of a sudden I click with a ski. (Unfortunately it took until this past season to click with my 2012 Hell and Backs. At this point they have 172 days on them, so I must have really wanted a softer ski. )

By the end of this season I was using the iKonics regularly. But they haven't reached the reverence level of the Rictors. The Rictors always did everything I needed with no fuss and a lot of smiles on my end. I know there's some here that turn up their noses, but if I never owned another pair of groomer skis than those skis, I'd be perfectly happy. However, they are losing a bit of hold on ice after 238 days. Still usable but I wouldn't trust them as much any more on some slopes. I'll probably pass them on to someone as a gift in a year or so. (Already know who)

 

[Wasatchman]

2019 iKonic 84Ti

You know I don't think there are such things as bad skis.

I agree except if there was a ski that I would be inclined to call bad ( for my tastes) it is the 2016 ikonic85ti Other skis I can talk tradeoffs but for me I don't find it has any attributes that I find really standout. For me, it is just meh at everything. That ski is not for me versus others out there. And I've tried Amp Rictors which I very much prefer over that ski.

I bought the ski off of Ebay from the guy that we later found out was selling stolen skis at Aspen. So the price was cheap for me. Never even got around to getting on them until a couple years ago, and I was like wow, I really don't care for this ski much. By then I figured it was too late to even bother trying to sell them as they are 2016 model year. And my friends don't like k2 (although they haven't tried the new mindbenders) so passing along to them isn't an option. Speaking of K2, I really enjoy my Pinnacle 88s. But I'll just use those 2016 Ikonics as rock skis which is funny as they are pretty much brand new.

Not to be a downer on your 84 ikonics which are a newer version of that ski I have. And it's personal preference. Just that I don't see really anyone on here that have ikonics, so when I saw your post and especially as it doesn't seem like they are fully clicking with you just yet I thought I'd chime in with my opinion of them.

And yeah, at the end of the day it's still a modern ski. If I were in a position that I couldn't choose anything different I'd still have a lot of fun on them.

 

[François Pugh]

2019 iKonic 84Ti

You know I don't think there are such things as bad skis. There's certainly skis that 1) when you first get on them feel different than what you are accustomed to and require you to change your technique to appreciate them, 2) are better for conditions other than what you're on, 3) that requirement a heavier or lighter skier or a stronger skier for their flex. Generally I've found that all of a sudden I click with a ski. (Unfortunately it took until this past season to click with my 2012 Hell and Backs. At this point they have 172 days on them, so I must have really wanted a softer ski. )

By the end of this season I was using the iKonics regularly. But they haven't reached the reverence level of the Rictors. The Rictors always did everything I needed with no fuss and a lot of smiles on my end. I know there's some here that turn up their noses, but if I never owned another pair of groomer skis than those skis, I'd be perfectly happy. However, they are losing a bit of hold on ice after 238 days. Still usable but I wouldn't trust them as much any more on some slopes. I'll probably pass them on to someone as a gift in a year or so. (Already know who)

I think on-piste skis are a bit like motorcycles. When I first got my motorcycle license, at the ripe old age of 27, I took a Canada Safety Council Course (highly recommended to install life-saving habits). They advised, and rightly so, that I start out on a 250 cc bike, certainly no more than 500 cc. Unfortunately I was a poor "starving student" at the time, so my learner cycle was me borrowing my brother's bike. My brother's bike despite being "stock" according to him, and despite being originally a standard Honda CB 750 (F I think-but my memory isn't as good as I remember it once was), obviously had been worked on; the original cylinder head was hanging on the garage wall, the clutch was super stiff, the carbs were Lectrons, the exhaust was an HRC 4-into-one-megaphone header, and that was just the obvious mods. Only problem was it made too much power for the air-cooled engine - half an hour of full throttle riding and it would get too hot. After I finished my course, I scraped up enough money to buy a used 250, but after one test ride there was no way I would be happy with a 250. I ended up with a 750 Interceptor, which was OK, and cornered much better than my learner cycle, but was too "nice", and too gentle; It lacked the brutality and soul my learner cycle had spoiled me with.

Once you spend time on a ski that can deliver high-g force turns it's easy to turn you nose up at less powerful groomer skis.

 

[DanoT]

You are wrong. A good skier can overcome a shortcoming in gear.

^^^ True, but the inverse is also true because imo a good ski can overcome some skier skill shortcomings. Hence, I have brand new Black Crows Atris powder skis. 2 year old Head Kore 93s as a everyday ski and a non rocker Kastle MX 83 as my very, very stable "It hasn't snowed in over a week" carver ski. And an old pair of Blizzard Bonafides as a early season rock ski.

I'll take and cherish every crutch/cheater ski I can find.

 

[Wasatchman]

Once you spend time on a ski that can deliver high-g force turns it's easy to turn you nose up at less powerful groomer skis.

Well, if it's less powerful but super easy, then I can understand that's the tradeoff.

For example, My Pinnacle 88 can get overpowered at speed on firm and certainly not my favorite for ripping groomed, but they are a dream in soft snow for their width, are nimble as hell, super easy and forgiving, and a blast in the bumps. My Kastle MX89s are super powerful and damp with no speed limit, but are a ton of work in pow. They have their shortcomings but what they do well makes it so worth it to me. No ski is going to be the best you've ever tried at everything.

So it's not so much that the ikonic 85ti wasn't powerful enough that disappointed me, but more that it it seemed to be just meh at everything and nothing that it seemed to do really well for me.

To use a car analogy (since I don't ride a motorcycle) it would be like getting in a car that had a little bit of a stiff suspension, but felt like it had the performance of a 4 cylinder Honda Civic and the handling of a large Buick. Edit: and that 2016 ikonic 85ti was the only ski I've tried in the last five years where I didn't feel like okay, overall not for me but I can say it's good at this attribute. FOR ME, the 2016 ikonic 85ti is a dog.

 

[Sibhusky]

Once you spend time on a ski that can deliver high-g force turns it's easy to turn you nose up at less powerful groomer skis.

I'm an old lady. I want non demanding, reliable, skis that essentially fade into the background and let me enjoy the day. I've already hit a tree at speed and it was 18 months rehab. Those days are gone.

 

[Wasatchman]

I'm an old lady. I want non demanding, reliable, skis that essentially fade into the background and let me enjoy the day. I've already hit a tree at speed and it was 18 months rehab. Those days are gone.

I haven't tried the 2019 version of the ikonics (nor do I have an interest based on my 2016 version) but I fear those may not be the best fit for you unfortunately. I think in terms of K2 you would enjoy the Pinnacle 88 a lot more.

And if you bought them without demoing based on the Rictor, I get it. But wow, for me the 2016 version of the ikonic is meaningfully inferior ski to the rictor in pretty much every way. I was surprised. First K2 I've ever been on where I'm like, wow, I actually can't think of anything good to say about them at all.

 

[Sibhusky]

I tend to stay committed to whatever I buy until they need replacement. I'll just learn how to ski them. Ultimately, that's good for you, like eating broccoli. And yes, I didn't demo them, just bought them because I really wanted Rictors, but now I've got them and I'll probably have them for 200 days as well. I just won't take them in the trees, lol!

 

[ski otter 2]

The K2 iKonics are really different from one another, in my experience. Some of them are close to rental skis, aimed at intermediates. The 17/18 on (or 16/17 on?) 84 ti is a frontside biased carver that is also forgiving and will carve bumps and crud well. I really liked the things. Not the 85.

The non-ti 84 is also a very different ski than the ti version. It's a more relaxed ski slightly better at pivoting and off piste than the 84 ti. But not my thing.

Not sure you would feel the same about the iKonic 84 ti as the 85. To me, the 84 ti ski in the picture above (and essentially the same ski in different years with other graphics) is a super ski, very versatile for a frontside biased ski. By contrast, the Rictor is more of an all mountain ski, but to me lacks enough carving ability or pop - but that's just how I experienced it, and relative to other skis at the time. It is a good slarver/carver, though. A friend I have skied with for many years skis primarily a pair of Rictors.

 

[Wasatchman]

I tend to stay committed to whatever I buy until they need replacement. I'll just learn how to ski them. Ultimately, that's good for you, like eating broccoli. And yes, I didn't demo them, just bought them because I really wanted Rictors, but now I've got them and I'll probably have them for 200 days as well. I just won't take them in the trees, lol!

Ah well. You can still have fun on them.

I have seen very few people ski the 2016 version. When I have seen them, I always stop and ask how do you like those skis, and the few times I have seen them the answer has been oh, they're okay, they're rentals and this is what the shop gave me I wouldn't really know but they seem okay. So rental shops that had them seemed to be giving them out to people who didn't seem to ski a lot.

Maybe the updated ikonics are better or it's just me, but a couple of times I've asked a shop they were like yeah, they weren't very good skis. I've never even asked about the more modern versions.

Not sure if pugski testers got on the 2016 version or if anyone on pugski forum has them that wants to chime in.

Anyway, i can respect you'll stay committed now that you bought them. You will still have fun on them and if they click for you and you think they are great skis, I'd be interested to know.

 

[Wasatchman]

The K2 iKonics are really different from one another, in my experience. Some of them are close to rental skis, aimed at intermediates. The 17/18 on (or 16/17 on?) 84 ti is a frontside biased carver that is also forgiving and will carve bumps and crud well. I really liked the things. Not the 85.

The non-ti 84 is also a very different ski than the ti version. It's a more relaxed ski slightly better at pivoting and off piste than the 84 ti. But not my thing.

The ones I have are a gold and black as pictured below. 2015/2016 Ikonic 85ti. Haven't tried any other versions. I might like the other ones better. But those gold and black ones for me are easily the worst ski I've been on in 5 years. And funny you should say some almost rental skis, because as I said the only times I've ever seen people on them they said they were rentals. But they don't seem to be marketed as rentals.

Anyway, cool if anyone has been on them and wants to disagree, and I am not one to say a ski sucks, but man, yeah, those skis for me suck.

 

[ski otter 2]

Very different ski.

 

[crgildart]

There's outdated, far better technology available to replace the ski... And there's the ski models that always sucked. On average, fewer new skis suck these days than there were that sucked decades ago.