What's essential for carving on hard snow?

[François Pugh]

Are you Ghost?

What of it?

 

[James]

During transition, the body is moving across the skis, so the momentum is moving away from the skis as the skis are being tipped. How can you tip it, bend it, and have the ski turn to catch you when you are moving away from the skis while you tip them? To have the ski come around and catch you, you must have momentum driving into the skis, not away. We're talking about 60 degrees of edge angle, before any carving can happen..

I thought you were talking about micro skidding, like on the scale of up to a few times the thickness of a ski. An inch or less. But according to your theory basically most of the turn can't be carved. And then only if you've got 60 deg of edge angle?
That just doesn't make sense with what we see.

The momentum part - how is it then one can do a whitepass turn? That's changing edges on your outside ski from the big toe side at the end of the turn to little toe side to start the new. That happens frequently in racing and everyday skiing usually by moving into the new turn too quickly.

From what you say that's impossible as the momentum is moving away when one goes big toe edge to little toe.

You really think we can't carve until 60 deg of edge angle? I see people carving all the time and they're not Ted Ligety.

So on what scale is this skidding occuring in your theory?

 

[geepers]

Disputes in physics are nothing new. Leibniz and Newton conducted a snail mail flame war for several decades re Newton's theory of gravity. We can be thankful to both those gentlemen for the parts they played in providing us a more immediate medium in which to conduct discussions.

Platform angle vs inclination...

Resulting in a force vector...

Which is what Ligerty is using in this

And McGlashan is using here:

To avoid any confusion over which angle constitutes the platform angle let's just say that CoM remains above a line perpendicular to the ski base.

For larger circles the tip will not follow the tail even approximately around a circle.

Gees, I hope not! Ok if you're skiing switch.

Yep, I know what you really meant and I fully agree that the tail does not exactly follow the tip. As researched here. The tip is on the inside of the turn building the platform. As the snow gets harder the front part of the ski has less work to do to compress the snow to establish a platform to support the skier. So the tail more closer follows the path of the tip.

During transition, the body is moving across the skis, so the momentum is moving away from the skis as the skis are being tipped. How can you tip it, bend it, and have the ski turn to catch you when you are moving away from the skis while you tip them?

The instructors used to tell me "Keep your body over your skis". I used to think that they literally meant vertically-over-the-skis and I wondered how I was supposed to do that and incline in the turn. But of course I have realised they mean keep your CoM above the line of inclination.

RR tracks is a case where the body is actually vertically above the skis at the start.

The up and over it drill is also relevant.

 

[skier]

I thought you were talking about micro skidding, like on the scale of up to a few times the thickness of a ski. An inch or less. But according to your theory basically most of the turn can't be carved. And then only if you've got 60 deg of edge angle?
That just doesn't make sense with what we see.

The momentum part - how is it then one can do a whitepass turn? That's changing edges on your outside ski from the big toe side at the end of the turn to little toe side to start the new. That happens frequently in racing and everyday skiing usually by moving into the new turn too quickly.

From what you say that's impossible as the momentum is moving away when one goes big toe edge to little toe.

You really think we can't carve until 60 deg of edge angle? I see people carving all the time and they're not Ted Ligety.

So on what scale is this skidding occuring in your theory?

I think most people aren't aware of it. It's just the difference between edge locked and not.

 

[skier]

What of it?

Hahahahahaha. First, no wonder you could follow the argument. Yes, I've had much more physics. I got tripped up thinking you'd hold onto what you learned, but if I knew it was you, I'd have known you'd cave the moment you have an opportunity to join the gang bang and squash the dissenter. That personality gave you away. It's classic Ghost to go right back to square one washing away all progress once the adversary, under attack by the group, appeals to your previous progress in understanding. Because you were following, I thought I was getting through to the group, but if I knew it was you I'd have given up early, knowing you'd be no help when push came to shove. If you're pulling my leg, and you're not Ghost, then I'll say you're just like him.

Alas, I've been defeated. The group dynamics has reared it's ugly head, reason is leaving, and so shall I. I'm afraid I may even fail in my simple goal of getting in the last word against Geepers.

 

[François Pugh]

LOL. Now you're just being paranoid. It's not a competition. Nobody is "ganging up" on you. We just value the truth. We know that arc-2-arc carving exists from decades of experience. Most of the skiing world agrees. The physics tells us how it is possible. If you don't agree, you're either trolling, you don't understand Newtonian physics or you don't understand skiing.
That's my honest opinion.

 

[skier]

LOL. Now you're just being paranoid. It's not a competition. Nobody is "ganging up" on you. We just value the truth. We know that arc-2-arc carving exists from decades of experience. Most of the skiing world agrees. The physics tells us how it is possible. If you don't agree, you're either trolling, you don't understand Newtonian physics or you don't understand skiing.
That's my honest opinion.

That's classic Ghost writing. So you are Ghost, right?

 

[dbostedo]

That's classic Ghost writing. So you are Ghost, right?

He is. It's probably too late, but I'd suggest we move past it, and not to drag long history into things. But that's just my feeling. Way too many of these threads get hung up on personalities, and shift the point from dicussing skiing, to digging in to see who can "win" an argument.

 

[skier]

LOL. Now you're just being paranoid. It's not a competition. Nobody is "ganging up" on you. We just value the truth. We know that arc-2-arc carving exists from decades of experience. Most of the skiing world agrees. The physics tells us how it is possible. If you don't agree, you're either trolling, you don't understand Newtonian physics or you don't understand skiing.
That's my honest opinion.

Ghost, think about it. I picked you out just because of your ability to follow an argument and then lose any semblance of it in the face of group dynamics. I read you like a book! Seeking the truth? LOL. If by now you can't realize how your "understanding" of physics blows around with all the group hot air, then there's no hope for you. Ultimately, you've never had your physics tested or verified with real world results given your occupation which is why your views aren't grounded.

 

[James]

Alas, I've been defeated. The group dynamics has reared it's ugly head, reason is leaving, and so shall I. I'm afraid I may even fail in my simple goal of getting in the last word against Geepers.

Yawn. You've spent more time trolling/whining than actually discussing the idea.

 

[Uke]

James,

Its a classic troll move, keep saying that you've had enough and are leaving but you never really leave.

 

[Tricia]

Closing this thread
When we start talking at each other instead of with each other, the thread has lost its legs..and skidded out of control.