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Mike King

AKA Habacomike
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Louisville CO/Aspen Snowmass
True Dat. Just the thread about inside tip was confusing, I thought it was talking about at the apex of the turn then @4ster expained it was refering to the transition of the next turn.
Then there's the issue of the definition of transition. Some people define it as edge change, some as apex to edge change, and others as apex to apex.

Mike
 

Kneale Brownson

Making fresh tracks forever on the other side
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I seem to recall Bob Barnes's The Complete Encyclopedia of Skiing describing transition as the moment of neutrality when the skis are flat and equally weighted between edge changes. Can't find my copy of the book to verify and it's no longer available on EpicSki.com:Cristmassnow:
 

dbostedo

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I seem to recall Bob Barns's The Complete Encyclopedia of Skiing describing transition as the moment of neutrality when the skis are flat and equally weighted between edge changes. Can't find my copy of the book to verify and it's no longer available on EpicSki.com:Cristmassnow:

@McEl seemed to be compiling the EpicSki encyclopedia as the site went down... perhaps he or @Bob Barnes has it somewhere that could be posted to PugSki.
 

James

Out There
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I seem to recall Bob Barnes's The Complete Encyclopedia of Skiing describing transition as the moment of neutrality when the skis are flat and equally weighted between edge changes. Can't find my copy of the book to verify and it's no longer available on EpicSki.com:Cristmassnow:
It's not in there, I just looked.
 

T-Square

Terry
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"I’d like you to ... ..."

I attempt to not use this phrase at all times because it focuses on me and not my student. My students don’t care what I like; they care about what they like.

I use, "Let’s try this and see what it happens." I try to communicate that we are both part of the learning cycle.
 

KingGrump

Most Interesting Man In The World
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@McEl seemed to be compiling the EpicSki encyclopedia as the site went down... perhaps he or @Bob Barnes has it somewhere that could be posted to PugSki.

You guys didn't downloaded the Bible when you had a chance? :nono:

Backup. People, it's call backup and archive.
Back when I was in IT (T.Rex was still king), we called it disaster planning. Now, Mamie calls me a doomsday prepper. :cool: :D
 

KingGrump

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All those punched cards had to be backed up! LOL!!

Oh yeah. Triplicate copies off site. Usually in a bank vault.
It got much easier and lighter with magnetic tape.

All ancient history.
 

Kneale Brownson

Making fresh tracks forever on the other side
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So if you have the digital file, maybe you could share it?
 

Kneale Brownson

Making fresh tracks forever on the other side
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Found it on my old computer and moved it to my current computer. Don't know what'll happen when I replace this failing computer with the new Macintosh I just got.
 

John Nedzel

Booting up
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When I read this - or read LF talk about avoiding the word "pelvis" - I have to laugh at myself. So many different kinds of learners. You can show me something a hundred times, but until you "use your words" to explain what I should be seeing it will mean nothing to me. The more detail the better! I want to understand the framework, the context, the discourse before doing anything crazy like the activity itself. :roflmao: No doubt the rest of the class will have mutinied by then.

There is aways a seat beside me on the lift for you and people like you Tony.
 

LiquidFeet

instructor
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You guys didn't download the Bible when you had a chance? :nono:

I did.
This is from Bob Barnes EpicSki Academy Glossary. There are words, too, in paragraph form. I'll only paste the graphic here as it's pretty comprehensive. Thanks, Bob.

Screen Shot 2018-12-19 at 6.52.05 PM.png
 
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Fuller

Semi Local
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1,522
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Whitefish or Florida
Back in Jr High I took band class and ended up playing the baritone horn. The easiest brass instrument to play and perhaps the heaviest to carry on the school bus - except for the tuba. I liked it, got pretty good at first but after a while it seemed I was no longer improving. The band teacher was first rate, very demanding and very thorough and I was wanting to get better but after a while I dropped out. A few years later I figured out why I wasn't able to play those 1/16 notes or the triples. I had spent years starting a note with a puh instead of a tuh. It works at first but then you're stuck.

At the Jr High level it's hard to hear the difference between the two if you're a teacher listening to a never ending supply of kids playing badly. And I'm sure the teacher never considered the fact that in spite of the 900 times he explained the correct way - i just wasn't getting it.

The same thing happened in High School. Four weeks of swim instruction as part of 10th grade gym class. I was the fastest kid in my class but I never changed my stroke to be in line with what the coach was telling us. I got a B and was outraged enough to pass on an invitation to join the swim team.

I was a hard case as a kid, I'm a much more patient, methodical learner as a 65 year old. I've continually improved my swim technique, I've made myself respectable on the C2 rowing machine and I'm learning pretty good form on the TT bike. I also taught my self to type. Something I couldn't do in 1990.

Why am I telling you all this? Sometimes it's the student, not the teacher.
 

LiquidFeet

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Back in Jr High I took band class and ended up playing the baritone horn. The easiest brass instrument to play and perhaps the heaviest to carry on the school bus - except for the tuba. I liked it, got pretty good at first but after a while it seemed I was no longer improving. The band teacher was first rate, very demanding and very thorough and I was wanting to get better but after a while I dropped out. A few years later I figured out why I wasn't able to play those 1/16 notes or the triples. I had spent years starting a note with a puh instead of a tuh. It works at first but then you're stuck.

At the Jr High level it's hard to hear the difference between the two if you're a teacher listening to a never ending supply of kids playing badly. And I'm sure the teacher never considered the fact that in spite of the 900 times he explained the correct way - i just wasn't getting it.

The same thing happened in High School. Four weeks of swim instruction as part of 10th grade gym class. I was the fastest kid in my class but I never changed my stroke to be in line with what the coach was telling us. I got a B and was outraged enough to pass on an invitation to join the swim team.

I was a hard case as a kid, I'm a much more patient, methodical learner as a 65 year old. I've continually improved my swim technique, I've made myself respectable on the C2 rowing machine and I'm learning pretty good form on the TT bike. I also taught my self to type. Something I couldn't do in 1990.

Why am I telling you all this? Sometimes it's the student, not the teacher.

OMGoodness, I love this. Self-knowledge ROCKS.
 

Mike King

AKA Habacomike
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From a Ron Lemaster/Mike Porter presentation on Lemaster's website (Variety is the Spice of Sliding--Exploring the range of skills and movements with PSIA’s 5 Fundamentals)


The Ski Instructor's Job:

  • Teach skiers to ski with intention, consciously choosing their tactics at all times
  • Determine what fundamental interactions with the snow are needed
  • Determine what movements will best produce those interactions
  • Keep verbal communication simple, concrete, and non-technical
  • Teach with tasks when possibleRon LeMaster & Mike Porter, 2016
  • Teach skills, not maneuvers
  • Drills for skills, not talk
  • Invent learning experiences
  • Let the task do the teaching
 

HardDaysNight

Making fresh tracks
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Nov 7, 2017
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Park City, UT
A key observation from this literature is that both skill acquisition and retention are enhanced by focusing on external, as opposed to internal cues and allowing the student to work out what actions are needed to achieve that external cue.

Really great to see this seeping its way into traditional instruction. An external cue is either achieved or not; it’s objective, unlike an internal cue or sensation which is whatever one decides it is.
 

GinBuck

What's a mogul?
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Oct 12, 2017
Posts
21
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MN
This was so confusing to me as a beginner
Only student, never teacher. Every profession has their jargon you just have to learn to get it. At work we are constantly pressured to not use jargon because it supposedly confuses some. I get that, but if one is serious about one's craft, you just have to learn the tools of the trade--especially for adults.

I find some of the jargon is not intuitive to the movement desired. "Push" (a simple enough term) was a good example. Don't have a good replacement. Just had to figure out what the instructor was trying to tell me.
 

James

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Dec 2, 2015
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I find some of the jargon is not intuitive to the movement desired. "Push" (a simple enough term) was a good example. Don't have a good replacement. Just had to figure out what the instructor was trying to tell me.
Should almost never be used unless it's about getting up off the ground, poling, skating ("push and glide"). Otherwise creates bad habits.

How was it used?
 

Mendieta

Master of Snowplow
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Only student, never teacher. Every profession has their jargon you just have to learn to get i

Sure, that goes without saying. But this is a thread for Instructors to optimize the Jargon. And I just saw James response :) The reason "push" is a bad word is not that I need to learn it, but really, it's not accurate. You are not pushing the outside ski, you are transferring weight to it. Same with uphill/downhill (vs inside/outside). Cheers!
 

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