What keeps you from taking ski lessons?

[scott43]

@scott43 , you should give it a try. You can still feed the family!!

Oh I've taken lessons. I had a good steeps lesson a few years ago in Utah. I just can't justify it. I can do an entire motorcycle track day for $200. I just can't justify a lot of lessons. If it's a stellar instructor and I know I'm going to get $200 of value, I would consider it.

 

[cantunamunch]

I asked an instructor once how to get better. They actually gave me a similar answer - quit your job, become an instructor, and ski 100 days. I will tell you that is was pretty demotivating... so please don't tell your clients this... unless you think it is actually feasible for them.

...or a life choice they would want to make.

 

[graham418]

Oh I've taken lessons. I had a good steeps lesson a few years ago in Utah. I just can't justify it. I can do an entire motorcycle track day for $200. I just can't justify a lot of lessons. If it's a stellar instructor and I know I'm going to get $200 of value, I would consider it.

I meant join the ski club

 

[Kneale Brownson]

GREAT topic!

Let me add this: If you really want to improve your skiing, start teaching.

I've expressed this sentiment several times here. I started instructing almost 50 years ago partly because I could get free trainiing. I spent Tuesday in a six-hour clinic with a former member of the PSIA alpine team and a PSIA RM examiner. My skiing improves a tad every season because of experiences like that. Most ski schools have trainers. Most big ski schools have trainers who are examiners. I've never heard of any of them charging for training.

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

I took 1/2 day group lessons every Saturday as a teenager. The instructors were excellent - Rod Roy ski club in Montreal. The main thing I learned is that I am a terrible athlete and learn much more slowly than anyone else I have ever met. That said, I did not take lessons for the last 20 years because I only was able to ski one day a week, and one ski trip a year, and I just wanted to play around and have fun. Now that I am retired, I am thinking of a Taos ski week next season to figure out what I need to focus on. Then I would want a private lesson with a good instructor to help me fine tune. I can feel when my form is off and I know WHAT I'm doing wrong; I just can't seem to fix it when I get to steeper terrain.

 

[geepers]

There's a little line I keep in my head for situations involving change, whether it be sport, business or life in general:

Dissatisfaction x Vision of what could be must be greater than Resistance to the change x Cost of making the change (D x V > R X C)

If folk are happy enough with where they are then they see no need to change.

If they don't have a vision of the situation improving then they won't bother to change even if they are a little unhappy with the current situation.

If the cost (generally in money and time) is large then it will overcome a modest amount of dissatisfaction and vision.

If their inherent resistance is high - and change is strange - then they won't take action.


And in the case of skiing, taking lessons is only one way of attempting to improve. It's the most effective way in my view but there are other options.

I asked an instructor once how to get better. They actually gave me a similar answer - quit your job, become an instructor, and ski 100 days. I will tell you that is was pretty demotivating... so please don't tell your clients this... unless you think it is actually feasible for them.

Well, it's true but a tad on the extreme end of the spectrum. Personally I've had two lessons - with a 20 year no lesson gap in the middle - that each had a major impact on my skiing. The 1st was back in my 30s (in the era of long skinny skis) where a small piece of advice on hand position helped hugely with balance. The 2nd was in my 50s when I finally took some advice on how to use shaped skis - massive reduction in the energy it took to ski.

Bet there's plenty of people reading this and thinking "That stuff is so basic -I'm way past that level." But the reality is we don't know what we don't know. The next improvement, major or minor, may be one lesson away.

(Then again it may require quitting job, skiing 100 days a year and take megabucks of courses.)

 

[razie]

And I have a mountain of paid-for lessons to show me that the expected outcome is highly likely to be the same as all the previous outcomes.

This!

I'm still going for lessons, any chance I get. Problem is I get very few chances because the biggest problem is that there are very few people worth taking lessons from. And by very few I mean maybe like 2 in this hemisphere, that I know of. Not everyone that skis better than you are worth listening to...

Before I found those worth listening to, I took lots of courses, coaching courses, instructor training (like 5 levels in total?), masters race training for years, privates whatnot. Other than those 2 worth listening to, the improvement was always very slow, tooth-grindingly slow, often discouragingly slow (often kept going just because I would get like a new level or something other than ski improvement and occasionally learn something new).

After that though, the improvement was/is all up to me, at my speed. Not hindered by having to decipher tips or low-level feedback and such...

 

[martyg]

I took 1/2 day group lessons every Saturday as a teenager. The instructors were excellent - Rod Roy ski club in Montreal. The main thing I learned is that I am a terrible athlete and learn much more slowly than anyone else I have ever met. That said, I did not take lessons for the last 20 years because I only was able to ski one day a week, and one ski trip a year, and I just wanted to play around and have fun. Now that I am retired, I am thinking of a Taos ski week next season to figure out what I need to focus on. Then I would want a private lesson with a good instructor to help me fine tune. I can feel when my form is off and I know WHAT I'm doing wrong; I just can't seem to fix it when I get to steeper terrain.

Check out Jennifer Simpson's 6 day camp at Loveland.

 

[Coach13]

As to lessons I will definitely be taking some soon. At our local ski hills (Liberty, Whitetail and Roundtop) many of us buy a night pass thru a ski club called a night club card that’s good for unlimited night skiing(4-10pm & 3-10pm on Sundays). I just found out about 10 minutes ago that there is a lesson option associated with the night club card that’s a $40 upcharge that allows you a free group lesson every visit. I guess I’ll find out the quality of the lessons, but if you just take one lesson, you break even. Not too shabby.

 

[scott43]

I meant join the ski club

Oh sorry, I misunderstood. That might have been possible but now the kids are too young and no go. However, relevant to all this, the KIDS might be getting lessons! But not me. Then there'll be hockey and soccer and baseball and bicycles and goodness knows what else.

 

[Mike Rogers]

Cost is a big factor. Private lessons are very expensive, and, as we are often reminded online, there is an exception (or at least hope) for a nice tip on top of the bill.

Group lessons are more affordable, but you wonder how much you can pick up in the short term while your instructor's attention is divided 2-6 different ways.

Because lessons are booked through ski schools, the general public has a hard time distinguishing one instructor from the next.

If you are in the know, you can request an instructor...but most of us are flying blind. I think many people have had some crappy experiences with lessons and are reluctant to invest a lot of time and money into a gamble. There are great instructors, and there are not so great instructors, but even the very good might instructors might not be the best fit for a particular skier. We all have different learning styles, and it can be tough to get in synch immediately.

To make things more complicated, skiing is a social activity for most people. Do we want to free ski with our friends and family, or should we take lessons independently, or take lessons together? If we want to take lessons together, can everybody afford them?

Priorities also matter. I have spent a fair bit of money recently on safety related courses offered by mountain guides. Trad placements for rock climbing, improvised rock rescue, crevasse rescue and glacier travel, avalanche courses. These courses aren't cheap either, but they seem more critical. I'm not a perfect skier, but improving my skills won't make much of a difference to my safety. I am happy I can pull liz out of a crevasse though!

Sometime in the not too distant future I'll do some sort of ski camp or a series of lessons. I have no doubt that I could benefit from a part day lesson from a skilled instructor, but I think a longer term relationship with a coach would be more beneficial.

I have some ideas

........................

Skiing is fun, even if you're lousy at it.

Like everybody else, my skills have improved throughout my skiing life. I am not sure if the fun factor has increased though.

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

Oh sorry, I misunderstood. That might have been possible but now the kids are too young and no go. However, relevant to all this, the KIDS might be getting lessons! But not me. Then there'll be hockey and soccer and baseball and bicycles and goodness knows what else.

Ah yes ... those parenting years. We prioritized investing in the activities the whole family enjoyed - so no soccer for my son because I can't stand the sport!

 

[graham418]

Oh sorry, I misunderstood. That might have been possible but now the kids are too young and no go. However, relevant to all this, the KIDS might be getting lessons! But not me. Then there'll be hockey and soccer and baseball and bicycles and goodness knows what else.

Sorry... your'e screwed. Abandon all hope.

 

[scott43]

Ah yes ... those parenting years. We prioritized investing in the activities the whole family enjoyed - so no soccer for my son because I can't stand the sport!

Wife was a varsity soccer player..ugh.. Who knows..whatever they like..maybe it'll be skiing and I'll be spending zillions on lessons and race camps and whatever else!

 

[RuleMiHa]

Dissatisfaction x Vision of what could be must be greater than Resistance to the change x Cost of making the change (D x V > R X C)

If folk are happy enough with where they are then they see no need to change.

If they don't have a vision of the situation improving then they won't bother to change even if they are a little unhappy with the current situation.

If the cost (generally in money and time) is large then it will overcome a modest amount of dissatisfaction and vision.

If their inherent resistance is high - and change is strange - then they won't take action.

This is AMAZING, and about the truest thing I've seen in years. It's a nice way to quantify the stages of change and well explains the want to want to change phase (smokers often don't want to quit, they want to want to quit). One of the most successful strategies I've ever had for helping people quit smoking was to have them add up the amount of money they spent on cigarettes in a year and then shop for all the things they could have bought with that money. Based on your formula, that worked because it multiplied the D and the V and decreased the perceived C. Very cooooooooollllll!!!!

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

Wife was a varsity soccer player..ugh.. Who knows..whatever they like..maybe it'll be skiing and I'll be spending zillions on lessons and race camps and whatever else!

We put our son in occasional morning lessons and then skied as a family for practice for multiple days until we wanted our own ski time! We absolutely refused snowboarding lessons until he could ski everywhere dad could. By then, he had no interest in snowboarding

 

[Guy in Shorts]

Time -The lifts are only running for 7 or 8 a day. There is no time is squeeze in lessons or drills. Maybe offer lessons after the lifts have stopped for the day.

 

[cantunamunch]

Wife was a varsity soccer player..ugh.. Who knows..whatever they like..maybe it'll be skiing and I'll be spending zillions on lessons and race camps and whatever else!

Quick, buy them some bikes it'll be cheaper!

 

[Josh Matta]

Maybe the next time you quote me in another thread you could tag me like this @mister moose to let me know?

You're taking "just getting down" a bit too literally. Let me clarify...

I say without ego that I ski well. I get complimented on occasion for my skiing but I refuse to call myself an expert because while I can ski steeps, groomed or not, fly down groomers, carve turns of all shapes and so on I struggle in the moguls. Why? Some of it is technique but mostly I'm out of shape and overweight. I don't advertise that typically because it's embarrassing. Because of those facts I struggle with the physical requirements of skiing moguls.

When I say I have flaws all over my technique I'm talking about things like, maybe I don't always have my foot in the right position (forward or back) at turn initiation, or maybe I tip my skis to initiate the turn but not enough, or my angulation isn't as strong as it should be, or when I get tired I end up in the backseat sometimes, or I get lazy with pole plants.. Etc. and so on.

As for why I never took lessons, that's easy.

1. Money in the early years
2. Later years I've only been able to get maybe 10-15 days a year in.
3. Because I have a great time even though I may have flaws and I'd rather spend those precious few days on-slope with my son or just skiing.

Sorry for the rant, but I don't appreciate the implication that a quickly typed phrase "just getting down" means I'm satisfied or that I'm not above intermediate.

sorry doesnt take much strength or conditioning to ski moguls well, heck if you ski well, you will actually lose strength and conditioning. The Generalizations listed are typically not issues in peoples skiing. In fact stuff like foot in wrong position, is nitpicky and I couldnt tell you what the right position is, because well, there is no position. Doing thing by being stronger, typical is just being more capable and not more skillful, the last thing you want to do with any sort of skiing with out having the fundamentals down is to add strength to it.

Time -The lifts are only running for 7 or 8 a day. There is no time is squeeze in lessons or drills. Maybe offer lessons after the lifts have stopped for the day.

How do you suppose to learn a movement base sport, with out doing the movements? Plus you could always find places with night skiing.


I think the biggest reason why people dont take lesson is money, and I agree with them, with out a free market and a captive audience at ski resorts instructors get paided less, and resorts charge more. Its unsustainable to anyone with any bit of true talent and knowledge to teach this sport with out other sources of income, and no one is helping the situation....well except for guest that tip. Even instructors are to disillusioned and not committed enough to stop the bleeding. Resorts wont realize their ill mistake until it WAY to late to solve, and the PSIA would function as a union if resorts wouldnt punish them for it.

We need 2 things to make the lesson experience better for the guest

instructor Unions - to make it so experienced instructor can keep doing this
Concession Ski schools - to keep the ski resorts honest about their pricing structure, and to ensure a free market for both product and labor.

The resorts dont want EITHER of these thing but if it does not happen soon, there will be no more quality instructor left, and maybe even no more left period. If that happens their biggest cash cow is dead and skier retention will drop, instead of staying flat. They need to realize that giving up their strong hold now, leads to more sustainability later.

 

[Coach13]

Skiing is fun, even if you're lousy at it.

You are clearly familiar with my skiing!