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Tricia

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@Sibhusky posted the results of Ski Magazine's Resort Rankings here, which engaged a bunch of conversation about how differently we as a Pugski community may think differently.
What if we had a Poll with the exact same lists of resorts and let the Pugski people decide?

First, lets created a list of resorts. Ski Mag may have missed a few.
Then we create polls for East and West with those lists.
Is east and west enough to create this list or do we need midwest and mid atlantic as well?
 

Jwrags

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I think you should divide the west as the Rocky Mountain regions are very different than the coast regions of CA, OR, WA and BC. A poll would be a fun conversation starter but "ranking" is so subjective as to what an individual is looking for, but it would be informative.
 

Sibhusky

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Well, if we're going to subdivide, let's at least have an overall somewhere.

You'll have to add a Europe or international as well as just North America.

Plus since it's early season yet, probably the end date shouldn't be for quite a while.

And will people be able to change their votes when they hit a new resort?
 

Philpug

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The regions could be broken down with prefixes we already have. What we have to offer with this is the interactiveness and the ability to communicate. I would suggest considering the ability to change votes in the poll because feeling, needs and percentions change over a season and even longer.
 
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Tricia

Tricia

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Lets do this right.
I'd like to get a focus group so we can work on how we want to do thi.

Any volunteers?
PM me
We'll keep it somewhat small and ...focused.
 

peterm

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I was thinking about this general subject the other day. To do it right, I'd want to use something more sophisticated than a simple poll. I'd want people to only do a comparative ranking of the resorts that they've actually skied at. Then I'd write a program to make sense of the results. This would be more sophisticated than just counting up the number of top ranked votes etc. Basically it's combining a bunch of partial orderings. I haven't researched the best way to do this, but it's not difficult to think of reasonable approaches.

For example, someone may have only skied at Squaw and Northstar so their rankings may be: 1.Squaw 2.Northstar. That's useful information, but it shouldn't necessarily count much towards Squaw being #1 particularly if most people ranked Northstar low.
 
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Tricia

Tricia

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I was thinking about this general subject the other day. To do it right, I'd want to use something more sophisticated than a simple poll. I'd want people to only do a comparative ranking of the resorts that they've actually skied at. Then I'd write a program to make sense of the results. This would be more sophisticated than just counting up the number of top ranked votes etc. Basically it's combining a bunch of partial orderings. I haven't researched the best way to do this, but it's not difficult to think of reasonable approaches.

For example, someone may have only skied at Squaw and Northstar so their rankings may be: 1.Squaw 2.Northstar. That's useful information, but it shouldn't necessarily count much towards Squaw being #1 particularly if most people ranked Northstar low.
Example: If someone wants to vote in the rankings for Tahoe, they need to have skied 60% of those resorts?
 

peterm

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Example: If someone wants to vote in the rankings for Tahoe, they need to have skied 60% of those resorts?

I wouldn't require such a restriction. A person could rank any number of resorts, as long as they've actually skied them. But the algorithm that produces the final ranking needs to be fairly smart.
 
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Tricia

Tricia

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I wouldn't require such a restriction. A person could rank any number of resorts, as long as they've actually skied them. But the algorithm that produces the final ranking needs to be fairly smart.
You sound like a volunteer. :D
 
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Tricia

Tricia

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You may get blow-back. Or be open to corruption....muwahahahaha!!!! :eek::D
Well, every year we see these rankings and we pick them apart. Why not see how pugski members would design such a ranking.
One thing is for sure, there won't be corruption, but there may be some interesting dynamics.
 

Started at 53

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Well, every year we see these rankings and we pick them apart. Why not see how pugski members would design such a ranking.
One thing is for sure, there won't be corruption, but there may be some interesting dynamics.

This is all a GREAT idea
 

graham418

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Super idea . You should do a contest too, and win a trip to the best resort . I don't know what the criteria would be to win though.. :D

You will have to decide ( or not) how to weigh the quantitative with the qualitative. The hard numbers of the resorts , vertical feet, lifts , runs, etc, vs the more touchy feely factors, the vibe, the mix of bars and restaurants,
 

scott43

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Looking at it from a higher level, sponsors may not be interested in advertising if they feel their rankings are not adequate. Just playing devil's advocate. I know in car magazines specifically there has always been the taint of favouritism to the largest advertisers. Makes no difference to me, but something to consider as site owners/operators maybe?
 
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Tricia

Tricia

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Looking at it from a higher level, sponsors may not be interested in advertising if they feel their rankings are not adequate. Just playing devil's advocate. I know in car magazines specifically there has always been the taint of favouritism to the largest advertisers. Makes no difference to me, but something to consider as site owners/operators maybe?
That has always happened in Ski Magazine as well. It has become a "pay to play" environment.

That is an area where we have a potential to have an unbiased rank. How would someone's decision to advertise on the site impact how you as a member vote?

We don't rate skis any better or worse based on advertising dollars.
 

Bill Miles

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Maybe the results should just focus on different categories with no attempt to determine an overall ranking, due to controversies about algorithms and weighting.
Tony says Ski magazine's categories are weighted equally, but I have never seen this published.
Z-rankings algorithms are unpublished and unknown.
Epicski had rankings apparently based on resort reviews and some Huddler scoring criteria which nobody knew anything about.
 

Muleski

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I may have a view that is of the real minority, but are actual "rankings" important?

Phil and Tricia re doing a very, very nice job with equipment reviews......which the membership plays a big role in. It's safe to say that Pugski has become a very solid, transparent and objective source for equipment information. One can easily search and read a variety of opinions, and often zero in on skiers of similar ability, skiing in similar parts of the country or world, and skiing on similar terrain. Or skiers of similar size and experience. Obviously still evolving, the information is much better and more detailed than any ski review "blitz", and there is no ranking of the equipment in the process. Unlike the age old process used by publications like SKI.

SKI's resort rankings have always been a joke, because, IMO, of a history of flawed methodology and the need to assign numerical ratings, and rankings for everything. Our daughter, a serious skier to say the least could weigh in on this with her background in market research.

My own opinion is that perhaps what might be of more "value" would be a very robust and well thought out process of reviewing ski areas/resorts. I'd be more interested in the reviews and the "meat", the local insider tips, a whole laundry list of information, than a ranking vis a vis others. As I think though it, having some reviewers weigh in with other resorts that they ski frequently, and how this one stacks up in their opinion in a few areas might be helpful.

Frankly what is number one in a region, or the country makes no difference to me. But I am different, and have logged a lot of ski days at "many" ski venues around the world.

There are a hundred or more that I could "rank." There are probably a dozen that I could seriously provide great insight into, and of those three or four that I know pretty much inside and out.

Just my two cents, but at a higher level, isn't serious insider, experienced reviews what you want? Instead of the "Is it a party town, and what's the nightlife ranked like?" How about, do not miss these restaurants, order this food, try these drinks or local brews, visit this spot on these nights for music, etc." Or where to eat what on the mountain?

Do I really care how Stowe, Sugarbush, Whiteface, Jay, Sugarloaf and Sunday River are ranked? No. Let alone the rest of the country. I would want to know when to visit those places, and when not to. Where to stay. What are the drives really like. What about kids programs? Who do I talk to? Who do I ask about specific instructors? Where do I get a tune or repair. Any local boot fitters? Anything unusual to do? Snow machine, snowshoe, Nordic trails. How about backcountry.

You get the point.....do you even need to rankings to get the valuable info?

I completely understand that many love metrics, data, measuring things, and "rankings."

When friends have asked me about vacations in a variety of places around the country, they rarely care about the rankings. It's more about where should we stay? How do you navigate around the mountain? What's your informed plan for that? Do we need a car? Is the bus system really as good as advertised?

I am convinced that PugSki can just "KILL it" in this area.
 
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