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WHAT DO YOU MEAN BEETHOVEN WASN'T SO GREAT???"

Bad Bob

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Williams should be tossed into this conversation. Between him and Weber they have written many of the symphonies of our lives for the past 50 years or so. Their music is not going anywhere for a very long time either.
 

SBrown

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Stravinsky and Jazz are so interrelated ...

Debussy.

I played some piano way back when, and I remember after college when I was in DC and found the local jazz station, I kept being reminded of Debussy. I learned later that I wasn’t crazy.
 

fatbob

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I've never taken music appreciation or had parents particuarly into music or anything but I've ended up with a fairly wide and eclectic taste from being an indie kid of the 80s.

Recently I've been listening to quite a lot of "behind the music" podcasts. I particularly rate Switched on Pop for its dissections of songs and artists I just wouldn't be listening to (try the Rocketman episode with Giles Martin for accessibility with material you'll be familiar with). At least as much effort seems to go into writing a successful "hit" in this era as went into classical compositions. The difference is that the rough cuts and be assembled and reiterated much quicker when you are running them through software vs assembling an orchestra. So we seem to end up with more disposable product because it is quicker to turn out. Plus the streaming era has changed songwriting - it is now key to get a hook in early and keep tracks short because more plays = more $.

Probably most recognisable composer today - Zimmer, keeping up with the John Williams theme.

Unless Williams meant Pharrell which is another good call
 

teejaywhy

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Listened to music all my life but only relatively late in life did I try to learn an instrument (guitar). While I struggle to understand simple melody and chord changes, it really blows my mind to realize what genius it must take to compose an orchestral piece for ~50 instruments! Definitely a lot more going on than pop music.

Frank Zappa. Dr Dre

Interesting to see these two mentioned in the same sentence. Zappa I'm very familiar with. Dr. Dre not so much. But let me say, I'm skeptical. Can you point me to some listens that might convince me?
 

Andy Mink

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what genius it must take to compose an orchestral piece for ~50 instruments
Right?
free-scores-admin_20100629103846.jpg
 

fatbob

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Listened to music all my life but only relatively late in life did I try to learn an instrument (guitar). While I struggle to understand simple melody and chord changes, it really blows my mind to realize what genius it must take to compose an orchestral piece for ~50 instruments! Definitely a lot more going on than pop music.

But the Orchestra isn't really 50 separate and divisible compositions - it's the same principle as multitracking a recording studio, you'll have a bank of strings broadly doing the same thing but maybe in different registers, percussion keeping the beat, feature instrumentation like brass brought in for parts and your lead instruments laying down the "vocal". Now greater skill in keeping it all together for a live performance of course which is why conductors earn their corn.

Don't let the medium fool you as to the complexity or indeed the simplicity of the composition

These guys are good for a new take on pop


As are these with a track which illustrates how dense and compact a rock track really is

 

Andy Mink

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I always liked this one. Nothing really to do with Beethoven but, hey, cellos. (Why are cellos better than violins? They burn longer!)
 

neonorchid

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The great composers of "classical" music were able to infuse their music with both the intellectual and the emotional side of the human experience at the same time. A great example is the second movement of Beethoven's 7th symphony. Its beautiful, slow, evocative melody has a real "hook" that you can hear in your head all day long, but if you listen deeper into the music you'll find that it seethes with underlying melodies and harmonies running along under the overlay of the main theme. You could spend weeks hearing everything in it.

Modern composers have it a lot tougher. People have been at composition for a long time and to come up with something that isn't a retread is hard. Also, there aren't the moneyed classes willing to pay for intellectually stimulating music today that there were pre-20th century, and in our more democratic world, the common folk pay the piper. So the great composers of today tend to compose for film, TV, and pop recordings. Economically there just isn't the demand for intellectual music anymore.
I disagree, let's leave it at that please and thank you.
 

David Chaus

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And then there’s mastery of the craft along with a sense of humor.
 

neonorchid

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The great composers of "classical" music were able to infuse their music with both the intellectual and the emotional side of the human experience at the same time. A great example is the second movement of Beethoven's 7th symphony. Its beautiful, slow, evocative melody has a real "hook" that you can hear in your head all day long, but if you listen deeper into the music you'll find that it seethes with underlying melodies and harmonies running along under the overlay of the main theme. You could spend weeks hearing everything in it.
So do "great" (subjective), contemporary composers.
Modern composers have it a lot tougher. People have been at composition for a long time and to come up with something that isn't a retread is hard. Also, there aren't the moneyed classes willing to pay for intellectually stimulating music today that there were pre-20th century, and in our more democratic world, the common folk pay the piper. So the great composers of today tend to compose for film, TV, and pop recordings. Economically there just isn't the demand for intellectual music anymore.
From an academic point of view there was a tremendous amount of bad classical music composed pre-20th century which you and I will likely never hear.

Categorizing any genera of music, not just and including pre-20th century classical as being "intellectual music" in itself is open to interpretation as to what is or is not intellectual in nature.
 

Posaune

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So do "great" (subjective), contemporary composers.
From an academic point of view there was a tremendous amount of bad classical music composed pre-20th century which you and I will likely never hear.

Categorizing any genera of music, not just and including pre-20th century classical as being "intellectual music" in itself is open to interpretation as to what is or is not intellectual in nature.
I find nothing to dispute in your comments. I'm not sure why you were moved to say you disagree with mine. It's tough to make a multifaceted response in something less than a tome. My intended point was that the cultures and economic forces of the past and present created different musical "markets." These markets define the type of music that professionals make, both good and bad.
 

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