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Monique

Monique

bounceswoosh
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If the hole is that large, then the bacteria can be dealt with later. If its bleeding that bad, then the blood will clean a lot of it out. If its bad enough to consider using one, then a bandaid aint going to cut it.
Stop the bleeding
start the breathing
protect the wound
treat for shock
Start the breath *after* stopping the bleeding?
 

Tico

Putting on skis
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I just got told by a client, who's an attorney and evidently lurks here, to note that my professional med kit includes appropriate wound care, advanced airways, and medicine that my medical director has approved for use at my discretion.

I guess snarkiness screws you in "the discovery process".
 
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Monique

Monique

bounceswoosh
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If the bleeding is bad enough, yes. You will die quicker with major blood loss, 1-3 minutes, breathing 4-5. Military trauma has had these four first aid says for quite a while.
I guess it all depends ... always ... which is what makes this so hard.

Let's hope I'm never in a situation where anyone has that much blood loss!
 

tromano

Goin' the way they're pointed...
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Man, every time someone lists Vitamin I, I get anxious! I only wish I could take it. And it's over the counter, so a well-meaning person could try to "help" me by giving it to me if I were not fully mentally recovered. I'm not sure it would have immediate negative effects, but the long term effect would likely be worse than the original malady.

FWIW, I just bought a Garmin InReach + the plan, and have practiced using it to text/email, set up contacts, etc. It appears to also have the full functions of a GPS device. But while that is fantastic for an "oh, shit!" scenario, I see myself more commonly using it to let my husband know that I'm running late so that he doesn't worry. And it doesn't stop bleeding or provide clean water.

I tend to bring a lot of extra clothes. I figure that in many cases, the challenge is staying warm overnight when you hadn't planned to be staying overnight.

How far from the trailhead or rescue services do you plan to be when you decide to pack the emergency shelter? I can't imagine bringing that if I were only an hour or two from the trailhead.
When I was a kid we found an unconscious man while backpacking on the Appalachian trail. We were about 3 miles from a trail head. We covered him in a sleeping bag and sent people to call for help. We were able to hand him over to SAR when they showed up 2 hours later. They were responding to a call made a an hour before we found him. The call was made by his friend who had carried him up a cliff and left him in the trail for us to find. The man had fallen 60' while climbing and landed on a rock with multiple broken bones. You never know what you will find in the BC.

I would say anytime I am further than 1 hour walk from a trail head I would bring some kind of emergency shelter type stuff. I think you could expect to spend more than 3 hours waiting for rescue to get you in many road-less areas even if you were just a couple miles from a trail head. So some kind of shelter would be needed in many scenarios.
 

Varmintmist

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If the bleeding is bad enough, yes. You will die quicker with major blood loss, 1-3 minutes, breathing 4-5. Military trauma has had these four first aid says for quite a while.
Zactly. If the puncture wound is bad enough that you consider plugging the hole with a tampon, dirt is not the main concern.

Besides if the patient is bleeding badly and you start chest compressions, where does the blood go?
 
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Monique

Monique

bounceswoosh
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Besides if the patient is bleeding badly and you start chest compressions, where does the blood go?
Well, that's a pretty clear point. Thanks.
 

JeffB

Refilling the flask
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442
I carry a medium adventure medical first aid kit. To it, I added iodine tabs, another compression bandage, some extra alcohol wipes, some more antihistamine, and extra latex gloves.

This is for backcountry travel, not biking, btw.

Duct tape is on my Nalgene bottles and hiking poles. Tampons are part of my emergency fire starter kit, along with a magnesium striker and two lighters. I carry about 100 feet of paracord.
Also, two space blankets and one poncho. I usually have an old school crazy creek chair with me. Otherwise I can scavenge splint material from tent poles if I have to. I always carry a large, full tang knife in a sheath too that could work as an immobilizer with some duct tape.

One thing I recently added that I didn’t used to carry is a fully charged Mophie and two wires - one for iPhone and one for android.

If all of these in combination don’t do the trick, or at least provide enough stabilization for a reasonably fit person to high tail it to the trailhead and get real help, then the unfortunate event is not survivable.

Risk mitigation is possible. Risk elimination is not. I’m fine with 5 extra pounds, give or take, for the former, but for the latter, a team of sherpas is required.

I think it’s laudable, @Monique, to want to carry the most useful kit to help everyone. And this is a great topic to discuss. At some point though, the kit carried becomes good money (weight) after bad.
 
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Monique

Monique

bounceswoosh
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Tampons are part of my emergency fire starter kit
Ooh! I never thought of this use. Excellent point. And btw, OB brand tampons don't have an applicator, so it's just a little plastic wrap around the cotton - very tiny.

I think it’s laudable, @Monique, to want to carry the most useful kit to help everyone. And this is a great topic to discuss. At some point though, the kit carried becomes good money (weight) after bad.
Oh, well, I didn't say I'd carry everything that everyone suggests :) I just want to gauge what's out there, and if there's stuff I hadn't thought of (like using a tampon as an emergency fire starter). A lot of potentially useful stuff is both light weight and small. A lot more stuff is light weight but bulky.

So, tell me about these para cords. Can certainly be used to hold a splint in place. Other than that, how do you envision using them?
 

scott43

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To be honest, painfully, I don't do first-aid kits, not while riding or skiing. Back-country camping, yeah but I don't think that's the focus here. I don't have the skills and frankly, the ambulance is almost always 15 mins away..
 

JeffB

Refilling the flask
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Ooh! I never thought of this use. Excellent point. And btw, OB brand tampons don't have an applicator, so it's just a little plastic wrap around the cotton - very tiny.



Oh, well, I didn't say I'd carry everything that everyone suggests :) I just want to gauge what's out there, and if there's stuff I hadn't thought of (like using a tampon as an emergency fire starter). A lot of potentially useful stuff is both light weight and small. A lot more stuff is light weight but bulky.

So, tell me about these para cords. Can certainly be used to hold a splint in place. Other than that, how do you envision using them?
Re the tampons, they are unwrapped/no applicator. If you have a little Vaseline or blistex or carmex, smear it on the cotton part. Then with a spark from magnesium, you get instant fire. Try it - amazing results with petroleum jelly added.

Paracord has almost infinite uses. Emergency rappel is one common thought, but string for shelter with a tarp or space blanket is another. You can use the inner material for fire starter, or use the whole thing for binding for splint, tourniquet, or sling. If you know your knots, you can use pieces of paracord for cravasse rescue. I don’t leave the grid without it.
 

Varmintmist

Bear, with furnture.
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Cotton balls soaked in Vaseline in a small pill bottle. You can get about 4 in there and a whole one will burn for 5 min off a firesteel. Half is enough to get a fire going as long as you take the time to get everything ready before you start throwing sparks. Preparation is the key to warm food. Fire kit is a whole nother discussion. :) Tinder, cottonballs in pill bottle, bic lighter, zippo lighter, firesteel, and 3 esbit tabs in a small peanut butter jar.

Paracord, AKA 550 cord (550 lb break strength) is just handy for everything. If you must, you can take it apart and use the strands for fishing line. Wrap duct tape around something like a hatchet handle about 10 times. It will be good to go when you unwrap it. I bought a tomahawk for giggles years ago and after using it, the hatchet has gained rust. Lighter and more versatile. Not a goofy tacticool one with holes cut out and pointy stuff, a cold steel trail hawk that is a real tool.

I dont go nuts with the first aid kit. It fits in a small dry bag in a side pocket of my pack. But there are bandaids, scissors, 3in pads, tape, tampon, pad, gloves, little super glue, anti bac cleaner, and moleskin. Most everything else can be improvised if needed.
 
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Thread Starter
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Monique

Monique

bounceswoosh
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To be honest, painfully, I don't do first-aid kits, not while riding or skiing. Back-country camping, yeah but I don't think that's the focus here. I don't have the skills and frankly, the ambulance is almost always 15 mins away..
I have surprisingly little reception on some of my favorite trails, just 20 minutes away from home. I blame the canyons. Probably smart to carry the InReach for those, even though there are tons of people around.

I don't think I'd carry a first aid kit while skiing at a resort - I do carry Tylenol. But while it could take quite a while to complete a rescue, I figure ski patrol can be just about anywhere, even with hiking, in very little time - and they will have more than I could ever carry.
 

oldschoolskier

Out on the slopes
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True first aid, is about doing what needs to be done to provide first aid. Any form of preparation is an aid to make things easier.

The truest form of preparation is using your brain, awareness and adaptability of what you to use when providing first aid.

My motto is think, adapt, use what’s available and do what’s required (improvise).

Simply said but hard to do and even harder to teach.

Old School.
 

DanoT

RVer-Skier
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Self administered pain medication is not what the ER at a hospital wants to see because it masks symptoms...just sayin.
 
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Monique

Monique

bounceswoosh
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Self administered pain medication is not what the ER at a hospital wants to see because it masks symptoms...just sayin.
True. Sometimes you're not going to be in an ER within 4-6 hours. You might be too deep in the backcountry.

When I tore my ACL, I knew I needed to see an ortho doctor, and that couldn't happen the same day. In that case, pain symptoms weren't super relevant - they could barely manipulate my knee because it was so swollen. Straight to the MRI. (I was super lucky - my husband happened to have an MRI scheduled for that week. His issue was on-going and not nearly as drastic, so I was able to take his slot.)
 

oldschoolskier

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Self administered pain medication is not what the ER at a hospital wants to see because it masks symptoms...just sayin.
Depends on the individual. You take correct and proper action, present it in clear manner, most doctors see that and are not concerned and actually commend you for taking action.

Don’t do this and you fall into the doesn't Know anything group and you get the harsh treatment.

Back to the original post, depending circumstances, proper first aid ranges from simple comfort and support to the extreme cases of full blown medical treatment (with or without training). The purposes of Wilderness First Aid training is to get us away from this mind set that only doctors can treat.
 
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Monique

Monique

bounceswoosh
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My motto is think, adapt, use what’s available and do what’s required (improvise).
For sure. But having thought ahead and putting some useful stuff in your pack makes it a lot easier.

I'm developing my own list. A lot of stuff I have in my home kit already, like Tegaderm and those 2nd Skin aquaheal moisture things. I bought one million different things when I was trying to prevent scarring after my chin stitches, and I learned pretty quickly what I liked.
 
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Monique

Monique

bounceswoosh
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@Bad Bob @tromano - okay, I bought paracord, but surely not the full length? That's a lot to put in a pack. How much do you carry? Bear in mind I'm thinking a first aid kit for day trips on bike or foot.
 

Bad Bob

old n' slow
Skier
@Bad Bob @tromano - okay, I bought paracord, but surely not the full length? That's a lot to put in a pack. How much do you carry? Bear in mind I'm thinking a first aid kit for day trips on bike or foot.
The ones in my ski backpack, and day pack started out as 25' but they have shrunk over the years. Parachute cord does that.

If you want to try something different look at Mule Tape. You can use it for pretty much anything.
 

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