Wendy Holdener race skis - new Heads?

[Swiss Toni]

With hindsight I should have perhaps said WCR boot shells, the full range comprises the WCR 2, 3, 4, and 5 SC. Because of the costs involved I think it would be uneconomic to make custom shell and cuff molds for individual WC athletes. As most of us know ski boots can be and are extensively customized to suit an athlete’s requirements. Apart from the color, the buckles on Wendy’s boots look identical to the ones used on the black Raptor 100 RS.

Primoz, are you suggesting that the boot manufactures do actually make custom molds for their WC athletes ski boots rather than customizing the shells that come out of the normal racing boot molds?

Skipress, neither Head nor Salomon make their boots in Hungary. Head boots are made in the Czech Republic and Atomic / Salomon boots are made in Romania I think Nordica is the only company that makes ski boots in Hungary.

When the early versions first appeared, there was a lot of speculation that they were rebadged Rossi boots, but I never saw any proof. The current Raptor series has been around for quite a while so it was due for replacement, the new boots have started to appear in European shops.
https://www.planksport.com/HEAD-RAPTOR-WCR-3-SKISCHUH/600005.26
https://www.tecnoscisport.com/index.php?id_product=6034&controller=product

 

[Primoz]

Assuming there was no secret deal with the Rossignol race department, doesn't this suggest that Pinturault was choosing to use the consumer Rossignol World Cup boots instead of what the Head Race Department could provide?

There was for sure no "secret deal" between Rossignol and Head, but that's not only option to get equipment, and these boots were not only thing that was used. Both SL and GS Rossi skis were regularly used by certain racer, who was not on Rossi That's one of main reasons why Austrians have whole bunch of pool servicemen instead of company servicemen for their top skiers... skiers that would easily get company serviceman, especially when skiers are on non-Austrian skis.

Primoz, are you suggesting that the boot manufactures do actually make custom molds for their WC athletes ski boots rather than customizing the shells that come out of the normal racing boot molds?
When the early versions first appeared, there was a lot of speculation that they were rebadged Rossi boots, but I never saw any proof.

They don't customize shells for particular racers (there's still some small customization), but they have few racing service only molds to pick from, and production is not done in their normal boot factories but in their race departments, so yes, molds for race boots are different then molds for their "public race boots", and so are materials and construction. After that comes final customization, but that's basically grinding and punching, so this you can't really consider as custom boot, but just some work to have boot fit your feet.
As for Head racers using Rossi boots last year... it's a fact. You could really see grinded off Rossi sticker on Pinturault's boots when all this came out. Later on Head did a bit better work hiding this, but it's fact not speculation.... maybe not in public but on WC tour, it's fact, even if you talk with Head's servicemen.

 

[Teppaz]

Fine, fine: It doesn't matter what Wendy uses — the real question is: will she ever win a fracking slalom?!?

 

[Primoz]

She will... I don't feel like looking and counting, but I would say Hansdotter had more second places then Holdener before she finally won her first slalom So I'm sure Wendy will sooner or later got it too

 

[cjm]

As mentioned upthread, Head has revamped the race boot and ski line. The boot Tricia tried on, the Raptor WCR 5, is a 110/100 flex. The WCR 2 is a 160/150 flex. The boot that interests me is the WCR 4 130/120, the WCR 3 at 150/140 would be a bit stiff for me. They all use the new Liquid Fit lace inner.
As Tricia mentioned they have moved from iTech to eTech in the skis – an electronic dampening system.
Full Race catalogue here (might be browser sensitive – Chrome worked for me).
https://catalog.head.com/#/catalog/286-5de8bced24ee8/0
Some pages from the catalogue.

 

[Primoz]

they have moved from iTech to eTech in the skis – an electronic damping system.

Just a bit of off topic question, since somehow it really interests me... Does anyone really buy this marketing BS, and seriously believe there's stuff like KERS, electronic dampening system and god knows what else marketing departments invent in skis?
I don't mean anything bad with this question, I'm just interested if someone believes this is really in skis?

 

[Corgski]

There was for sure no "secret deal" between Rossignol and Head, but that's not only option to get equipment, and these boots were not only thing that was used. Both SL and GS Rossi skis were regularly used by certain racer, who was not on Rossi That's one of main reasons why Austrians have whole bunch of pool servicemen instead of company servicemen for their top skiers... skiers that would easily get company serviceman, especially when skiers are on non-Austrian skis.

Interesting, thanks. I had assumed that in-house race equipment would be regarded as prototypes and finding a way to get your hands on someone else's prototype is usually not a good legal situation. Well, whatever the legal status is, everyone seems OK with it.

 

[Noodler]

At room temp, I felt like the WCR3 was roughly equivalent in flex to my B2 RD. The WCR2 was ridiculously stiff and that stiffness also contributed to the fit feeling narrower throughout the shell. It would take work for me to get into the WCR2, while the WCR3 would be easy to jump into.

 

[Tricia]

The boot Tricia tried on, the Raptor WCR 5, is a 110/100 flex

It felt stiffer than my Lange RS 110 SC.

 

[Corgski]

We need to have a thread on the techniques used to disguise ski equipment on the World Cup. A little while back I was thinking that if I could disguise my new Fischer Curvs as Salomon XPros, I could spare myself a potentially awkward discussion with my wife. Now if we can disguise new skis to look the same as our old ones.....

 

[skipress]

There has been a lot of discussion on this forum previously that many Head athletes (not only Holdener, but also Pintu, a few Swedes, etc.) use a white French boot whose name starts with "R"

Even with this and looking at the new Head shell there are aspects that make it look non head-ish, or it's well out of whack from the retail version. Lots of race shells are but they are generally decent facsimiles - if nothing else key learning point for Head, try the same buckles:

Skipress, neither Head nor Salomon make their boots in Hungary. Head boots are made in the Czech Republic and Atomic / Salomon boots are made in Romania I think Nordica is the only company that makes ski boots in Hungary.

Not disagreeing but that set of Heads in the image were stamped close to the AFD area as made in Hungary. I asked the Head guy as I wondered if they were made in the same factory as AN Other brand and was assured it was 'their factory'.

The levers might be consistent with other models but the wire 'ends' are not

 

[cjm]

At room temp, I felt like the WCR3 was roughly equivalent in flex to my B2 RD. The WCR2 was ridiculously stiff and that stiffness also contributed to the fit feeling narrower throughout the shell. It would take work for me to get into the WCR2, while the WCR3 would be easy to jump into.

I'm on the B3 RD and happy with the flex. It is currently set at the 'out of box' 120 flex which is considerably stiffer than my old Tecnica Mach 1's at 130.

Noodler, where did you try on the new WCR's and did you notice much difference in fit or flex from the B series, they claim a more progressive flex. Did you get an impression of the inner?

 

[Noodler]

I'm on the B3 RD and happy with the flex. It is currently set at the 'out of box' 120 flex which is considerable stiffer than my old Tecnica Mach 1's at 130.

Noodler, where did you try on the new WCR's and did you notice much difference in fit or flex from the B series, they claim a more progressive flex. Did you get an impression of the inner?

I also own and have extensively skied the B3 RD. The WCR3 is "more boot" in my estimation, but of course I haven't skied it yet. So there's always the WCR4 is you want to step it down a bit.

The LiquidFit liner is a nice piece of work. My concern though is that it kind of goes against the "best practice" stated by ZipFit Sven in that if you want to improve the fit and hold down power then add "material" to the tongue and over the instep, not in the ankle bladders. Adding material around the ankles can work, but it can also push you a bit forward in the boot, so you have to watch out for that happening if you're tight on toe box room (and then you might need to blow out the toe box). This is no injection available for the tongue. Hopefully this is something Head will consider for the next iteration.

Fit-wise I would say they're similar, but not the same. The hinge point has been changed again (from both the B2/B3 and the R2/R3). The ankle/heel pocket is still one of the most anatomically shaped in any boot and the instep is still fairly low when compare to other boots of similar caliber. If you have a "Raptor" foot then you'll probably get along fine with the WCR series. Just watch out for that WCR2 - if that's not a true WC plug race boot, then I would be really "scared" of the real ones.

 

[HardDaysNight]

The forward lean of the WCR series boots is reported to be 16 degrees (classic method) and 9 degrees (new method). Does anyone know what the new method is and why it provides any benefit over the “classic” method?

 

[Teppaz]

She will... I don't feel like looking and counting, but I would say Hansdotter had more second places then Holdener before she finally won her first slalom So I'm sure Wendy will sooner or later got it too

You made me curious so I checked: Hansdotter had 8 second places before winning a WC slalom. Holdener has been 2nd in slalom 13 times! She's won three WC races (a city event and two ACs) but never her signature slalom.

 

[Swede]

She will... I don't feel like looking and counting, but I would say Hansdotter had more second places then Holdener before she finally won her first slalom So I'm sure Wendy will sooner or later got it too

I heard that Swiss ladies hasn't won a SL in 17 years...

 

[Swede]

Might even be 19 years, Sonja NEF. Hope Wendy breaks the nasty spell for them. But I have a feeling think ASL will beat her to it.

EDIT It was 18 years ago, Marlies OESTER in 2002.

 

[Deadslow]

Spotted - RAPTOR WCR 4 - in the wild

 

[Noodler]

Spotted - RAPTOR WCR 4 - in the wild



View attachment 94097

That looks like some kind of prototype. That's not what the final production boot looks like exactly.

 

[Snuckerpooks]

Looking at the skis from that catalog...
Why are the masters GS skis 68mm underfoot where as the FIS stay at 65mm? I would have thought 65mm under foot would have been better, even for a masters ski. Anyone got any ideas?