Weight on outside ski or inside ski?

[trouts2]

The original comment has a context you are disregarding. The mention of highly focused was in regard to weighting and not a full description of all aspects of a turn. The idea being that I don’t focus at all on the percent of BFW or whatever you want to call it on the inside ski. I explained that.

Yes, I can focus on both, along with my hands, poles and many other things. I can walk and chew gum at the same time. If you are not satisfied with my explanations in post #159 so be it.

 

[Noodler]

The original comment has a context you are disregarding. The mention of highly focused was in regard to weighting and not a full description of all aspects of a turn. The idea being that I don’t focus at all on the percent of BFW or whatever you want to call it on the inside ski. I explained that.

Yes, I can focus on both, along with my hands, poles and many other things. I can walk and chew gum at the same time. If you are not satisfied with my explanations in post #159 so be it.

Got video?

 

[JESinstr]

As pointed out earlier, semantics are a big issue here. For me, I think of pressure as being an outcome and something to be managed. One way to do that is by creating angles!

And when we don't, the ski slips and we end up making pressure by pushing/bracing. Not because we want to but because the angles based (managed pressure) outcome (turning force) has been interrupted and we have to deal with the return of straight line force.

The correct response is not to reactively push/brace but to employ higher edge angles. Just thought I would throw a little semantical physics in there.

 

[trouts2]

Got video?

Video…., I do, from two weeks ago. The first of the season. The surface sucked and me not up to snuff. It was MASSIVLY depressing, replete with bush league mistakes I might do once a week. My ego is destroyed and the video something I would fight tooth and nail against anyone posting so something I would hardly offer up for endless ridicule.

In lieu of the video:

I usually ski 5-6 days a week, 85 this year so far. I think I would be classified as a mid-level advanced but not a full match of all of the criteria. I’m at least a foot away from a hip drag when I rip a good turn. I'm 6'1" with long legs so it is not easy getting down there.

My all mountain skis for the last three years are Volkl FIS SL 165’s. My wide ride "powder" skis are K2 camber 170 R15's with 80 under foot used for crud.

A typical day starts with trying to do tight slalom turns from our steepest black for 5-8 runs. Most days the surface is white hard pack. I do the first couple of turns ok but as speed builds up the turns degrade rapidly with edge slipping, I’m late, turns widen & etc. I do the rest of the run trying tight turns at speed then go back up for another run.

From there I switch to blues, do some free runs focusing on good overall form doing fast turns and 3-5 runs of drills from the Mikaela Berke Mountain series. The goal with drills is to do them very well. I love doing drills and would post a video that if I had one.

My skiing universe has changed over the last two weeks. I bought a decent 2 piece four buckle boot that has changed everything, Lange SX 120 from an 80 progressive flex 3 buckle cabrio Nordica TransFire R3.

The Lange has more room above the arch and the only decent boot I’ve ever tried that I could fit in, 102 last but seems more like a 100. (I could not locate a 130 flex.) It is now much easier to ski, much better edge bite, my legs don’t burn out quickly as with the Nordica. I think the boot is as close to a race boot as I can get with my weird feet. It is all a new ball game with this boot.

I don’t race but jump in gates whenever a course is open. I’ve run NASTAR twice with pitiful times like 10 seconds behind respectable times. I don’t like to ski in a tuck so don’t.

 

[trouts2]

Exactly what you don't want to do with the inside ski, support the com

No! Tell that to GG.

@Rod9301 Here is some snips from Greg Gurshman

Use of the Inside Ski in Modern Race Turns

Greg Gurshman


>>the inside ski begins to carry more load not only assisting in maintaining balance laterally,<<

So, how do the World Cup racers use the inside ski for producing more speed out of each turn?Generally, World Cup skiers maintain the weight distribution ratio between their outside and inside skis somewhere between 80/20% and 70/30% in phase-I of a turn. This ratio changes throughout the arc of a turn. Normally, a good turn is started above the fall line with close to 90% of the weight on the outside ski

The turn begins in the second frame (from the top). At this point the inside ski is really light and is almost off the snow. As the skier progresses through phase-I, more weight shifts to the inside ski. As the skis enter the fall line in phase-II, the inside ski begins to carry more load not only assisting in maintaining balance laterally, but also participating in carving an arc of the turn throughout phases-II and III, as can be seen from the following sequence.

@Rod9301 If you do dynamic turns you should be feeling feeling these things.

 

[Rod9301]

No! Tell that to GG.

@Rod9301 Here is some snips from Greg Gurshman

Use of the Inside Ski in Modern Race Turns

Greg Gurshman


>>the inside ski begins to carry more load not only assisting in maintaining balance laterally,<<

So, how do the World Cup racers use the inside ski for producing more speed out of each turn?Generally, World Cup skiers maintain the weight distribution ratio between their outside and inside skis somewhere between 80/20% and 70/30% in phase-I of a turn. This ratio changes throughout the arc of a turn. Normally, a good turn is started above the fall line with close to 90% of the weight on the outside ski

The turn begins in the second frame (from the top). At this point the inside ski is really light and is almost off the snow. As the skier progresses through phase-I, more weight shifts to the inside ski. As the skis enter the fall line in phase-II, the inside ski begins to carry more load not only assisting in maintaining balance laterally, but also participating in carving an arc of the turn throughout phases-II and III, as can be seen from the following sequence.

@Rod9301 If you do dynamic turns you should be feeling feeling these things.

You are misinterpreting my comment, hopefully not on purpose.

Of course at the end of the turn, in transition, you start switching the weight from the outside to the inside ski.

But while you're turning, to resist the centrifugal force, to don't want weight on the inside ski.

 

[Mike King]

You are misinterpreting my comment, hopefully not on purpose.

Of course at the end of the turn, in transition, you start switching the weight from the outside to the inside ski.

But while you're turning, to resist the centrifugal force, to don't want weight on the inside ski.

It's an interesting discussion of where transition begins and where it ends...

 

[razie]

I was thinking Harald Harb while looking at the five video caps of your feet. Can people see why?

... I don't know? Was I pulling back so hard that you could see the sticker with:

YO SOY UN HARBISTA!
VIVA LA REVOLUCION!

 

[trouts2]

Exactly what you don't want to do with the inside ski, support the com

Your comment was very specific to what I had written. I wrote about the inside ski contributing….& etc, You wrote that it was exactly opposite. That is straight forward stuff. I did not misinterpret. anything. If you think I did you should have explained why you think so because it is lost on me.

As to, “hopefully not on purpose”, that is bazaar.

I have no idea why you are mentioning the things in the last two sentences. They are unrelated topics. ??

I wrote that the inside ski and leg provided a support for COM and you posted that what I wrote

was exactly opposite etc etc.

I don’t know what is going on. I said support. You said no. I posted GG saying support. No agenda.

 

[Noodler]

Your comment was very specific to what I had written. I wrote about the inside ski contributing….& etc, You wrote that it was exactly opposite. That is straight forward stuff. I did not misinterpret. anything. If you think I did you should have explained why you think so because it is lost on me.

As to, “hopefully not on purpose”, that is bazaar.

I have no idea why you are mentioning the things in the last two sentences. They are unrelated topics. ??

I wrote that the inside ski and leg provided a support for COM and you posted that what I wrote

was exactly opposite etc etc.

I don’t know what is going on. I said support. You said no. I posted GG saying support. No agenda.

Using GG to support your statements makes "sense" now on why you have the beliefs you've posted regarding high performance skiing technique. Suffice to say, GG is not a source I would put any confidence in.

 

[Rod9301]

Your comment was very specific to what I had written. I wrote about the inside ski contributing….& etc, You wrote that it was exactly opposite. That is straight forward stuff. I did not misinterpret. anything. If you think I did you should have explained why you think so because it is lost on me.

As to, “hopefully not on purpose”, that is bazaar.

I have no idea why you are mentioning the things in the last two sentences. They are unrelated topics. ??

I wrote that the inside ski and leg provided a support for COM and you posted that what I wrote

was exactly opposite etc etc.

I don’t know what is going on. I said support. You said no. I posted GG saying support. No agenda.

Why would you want the inside ski to support your com?

The entire balance in skiing should be on the outside ski.

 

[Chris V.]

... I don't know? Was I pulling back so hard that you could see the sticker with:

YO SOY UN HARBISTA!
VIVA LA REVOLUCION!

The five video caps were back on page 4 of this thread, for those who have lost track.

Narrow stance throughout.

Frame 1--balancing on the little toe edge of the left ski. There is visible daylight between the right ski and the snow. Entering the transition quite flexed.

Frames 2-3--the right foot leads the edge change. In frame 3, the knees are apart, and the right ski is more edged than the left.

Frames 3-5--the left foot is dorsiflexing and being strongly pulled back and tipped, close to the left foot. The right toe has not crept up toward the left toe, approaching the apex.

That's all very PMTS-ish, from what I've been exposed to.

 

[trouts2]

Why would you want the inside ski to support your com?

@Rod9301 Re-read my post to get your answer for the question.

 

[Rod9301]

I read it, it just doesn't make any sense.

I don't know if you're an instructor, and advocate suporting the cog with the inside ski, because it's easier to teach intermediates.

 

[trouts2]

Using GG to support your statements makes "sense" now on why you have the beliefs you've posted regarding high performance skiing technique. Suffice to say, GG is not a source I would put any confidence in.

You don't find Greg credible, fine. That is a valid position. Many would disagree with you.

Google around for Ted Ligety's video in which he is describing using the inside leg for feedback to reposition himself (me - re balance, support his COM) when he is just entering the apex of a competition turn. His inside ski obviously has weight and p on it. He talks about realigning himself. Maybe he is not credible either as he uses the politically incorrect P word (pressure) on entering a turn.

One of the turns in the video he executes with almost all balance on he outside ski. I forget how he phrased it but the upshot was 100% balance on the outside ski. At the time, the inside is barely skimming the snow surface and could be considered off the snow. He says that. On that turn he is commenting when the skis are at the apex. For the rest of the turns his inside ski is well into the snow. I think he usually entered a turn with the inside raised but by the apex his inside is in the snow. As you go through his videos keep an eye out for his inside being off the snow at the apex and if you find one get back to me. I think it safe to say, normally by the apex he is riding both.

 

[trouts2]

I read it, it just doesn't make any sense.

I don't know if you're an instructor, and advocate suporting the cog with the inside ski, because it's easier to teach intermediates.

OK, you have made your evaluation and clear with your position.

 

[Mike King]

@trouts2, how is your outside ski skiing? Are you an expert?

 

[trouts2]

@trouts2, how is your outside ski skiing? Are you an expert?

For: how is your outside ski skiing?
The purpose of the inquiry is....


For: Are you an expert?
The purpose of the inquiry is....

 

[Mike King]

page 33-37

http://www.ronlemaster.com/presentations/USSA-symposium-Copper-Mt-2015.pdf

From the explanations I've seen from you in this thread, I'd guess not and in that case, you might consider a few other sources:

• PSIA fundamentals: "Control pressure from ski to ski and direct pressure toward the outside ski."
• CSIA: Balance on the outside ski will allow the ski design to create the turn. You are moving from one outside foot to the other.
• CSCF: Goal = 100% of the weight on outside ski
• USSA: Outside ski to outside ski
• JF Beaulieu: The outside ski is the rider, the inside ski the decider'
• PMTS: Balance is established on the outside ski. The outside leg follows the tipping of the inside foot and ski
• USSA SL Pyramid:

Mike

 

[James]

There's actually a mogul skiing technique where you put all your weight on the uphill ski. That would sort of be the inside ski.
@Josh Matta talked about I think Terry Barbour using it.