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Tim Hodgson

PSIA Level II Alpine
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Mr. Brownson: 10-4. Will do.

JESinstr: without going down a rabbit hole, I would say passive weight (Pressure) to the outside ski would result from at least three things:

1. Centrifugal pressure created by a turning ski (i.e., by opposing fighting the direction of travel of the CoM);
2. Terrain (as in sliding up a bump;
3. Gravity (as in sliding down a bump).

But I get it. None of those things exist in the basic WC. So is there no passive weight transfer occurring in the basic WC? Rather, merely a more subtle "active" weight transfer? I don't know.
 

Kneale Brownson

Making fresh tracks forever on the other side
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So you're at the end of a left turn, standing mostly on your right foot, but you've been cranking femurs toward the left, creating a bit of counter. For your next WC turn, you're going open your knee joints slightly. That's plural. That means you are beginning to equalize weight. You also are steering both legs toward the right, but because you have not equalized completely, you start to wedge. As you reach the funline, you are equal. While continuing to steer right, the weight continues to transfer to the left foot, which eventually becomes dominant.

These stages are progressive.
 

geepers

Skiing the powder
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Hi geepers. I have to disagree. Around second :07 and again at :12, for example, take another look. It's pretty clear to me that the weight has moved inside.

Your eye is a lot more experienced than mine so no doubt right.

If you'd just looked at the vid, one run through at normal speed, without LiquidFeet's still photo of 0:07 in mind, and no ability to freezeframe, would you have picked it? I take it the assessors only get one look and can't go to a slomo replay.
 

Skisailor

Laziest Skier on the Mountain
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Your eye is a lot more experienced than mine so no doubt right.

If you'd just looked at the vid, one run through at normal speed, without LiquidFeet's still photo of 0:07 in mind, and no ability to freezeframe, would you have picked it? I take it the assessors only get one look and can't go to a slomo replay.

It's a really good question. But I do remember that when I first saw the video - no stills - my initial impression was that she was back and inside. And I remembered my prep clinic clinician emphasizing that WCs should still look like good fluid skiing which exhibits all of the 5 fundamentals.

We did a nice exercise in the prep clinic skiing continuously from wedge turns to WCs to basic parallel and then reversed back to WCs and wedge turns. Very helpful.
 
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karlo

karlo

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So, yesterday, on a glorious sunny, windless, crisp day at Stowe, I succeeded in performing a passable wedge turn and passable wedge christie. By crisp, I mean during a morning break to get in from the cold, I put on a second glove liner and turned on my heated socks. But, that’s thread drift.

So, here is how I finally figured it out and how all the posts and advice here gelled. Last weekend, for the first time in my three years instructing, I worked with a group of New To Sport kids. We do parallel from start here; with the lead of an experienced NTS instructor, most of the kids got it quickly, making a j turn, then making turns. Three did not. I stayed with them and started working with them to turn their feet and legs, to pointing the headlights to the side of the trail. Then, that’s when it hit me. The wedge christie is about rotation, not just to match, but also for turn initiation. Tipping and edge engagement happen passively. For sure, no angulation.

Then, I went to the PSIA-E description of the exam tasks,

“Wedge Christie:
Performed on green or easy blue terrain at novice zone speeds. At turn entry,
both skis are released, but edge change occurs at different rates. As the skis begin to turn down
the hill, this differing rate of edge change leaves the skis on opposing edges. As the turn develops,
the inside ski will flatten, returning the skis to corresponding edges, allowing the skis to become
parallel. The timing of the inside ski edge change will determine the location at which the skis
become parallel and may occur at different locations throughout the turn depending on terrain,
speed, and student confidence level.”
Ref: https://www.psia-e.org/download/ed/alpine-ed/AlpineExamGuide.pdf

A lot said about edges and edge change, which was my mindset.

Then, I looked at the video link


Then, I read the Assessment Criteria more closely,


• Convergence of the skis occurs as the new outside ski is able to be steered (STEERED!) faster than the new inside ski. The skis should NOT be pushed or stemmed into a wedge.
• A skidded (NOT CARVED) arc is accomplished with the turning of the leg,( ROTATION!) separate from the upper body.
• At turn initiation, the COM moves towards the apex of the new turn, NOT to the outside of the
turn.
• Turning or rotation of skis is progressive rather than abrupt and originating from the feet and
legs.(FROM FEET AND LEGS, to point the HEADLIGHTS!)
• The pivot point of the skis is under the foot.
• Feet should remain hip width or slightly wider and ...”

Me, I learned to turn when my high school friend’s Mom told me, in a snow plow, just to weight one ski then the other. No rotation there, not intentional anyway. Hence, my wedge christie was all about standing on and pressuring the outside ski.

Anyway, I tried it. I did what @James suggested, come to a near stall before turning. I did what @Erik Timmerman showed me at Stowe, go real slow. Then, I rotated. It worked! And, as I did it, as @LiquidFeet described, the edge of the outside ski engaged, it turned faster than the inside ski, which eventually caught up as I rotated it, and when it’s edge finally engaged. Angulation, even subtly, no need. Inclination works. Conscious tipping, didn’t need that either; it just happened.

The feedback from the examiners. My upper body rises and lowers in a very pronounced way; lessen that. If I go for a Level III, I’ll have to work on my wedge christie’s flex-to-release :)

Much thanks to everyone that contributed here for helping me develop an understanding of what a wedge christie is. Special thanks to @Erik Timmerman for spending a day with me last season working on this. Now, I better understand why he wanted to see how I entered a wedge, to see if I rotated into it. And thanks to Brian Schwartz, Bill Fischer, Terry Barrett, and Terry Murphy, all at Whiteface, for their help, working with me on the wedge christie and all the other exam tasks, attention they gave me personally, as, on account of my schedule, I haven’t been able to attend any of the Level 2 clinics there.
 

Chris V.

Making fresh tracks
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Good post, Karlo. I'm still not clear why we do these. They just seem like flawed parallel turns. Any student who can do great wedge christies should be able to do proper parallel turns. A wedge christie starts with a release, just like parallel turns, but then we intentionally get lazy with the inside foot through the first part of the turn.
 

Josh Matta

Skiing the powder
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We do them so we can show students what they are doing...many people when taught outside leg steering will do these with out trying, the issues is with most people is they are are not capable of doing less and try to do to much.
 
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karlo

karlo

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Good post, Karlo. I'm still not clear why we do these. They just seem like flawed parallel turns. Any student who can do great wedge christies should be able to do proper parallel turns. A wedge christie starts with a release, just like parallel turns, but then we intentionally get lazy with the inside foot through the first part of the turn.

Someone said earlier, in this thread, that wedge christie isn't taught, it just happens. So, I was wondering the same thing. Well, for me, now I know. It all came together for me this weekend, working with students that had difficulty making their first turns. Understanding a wedge christie is not about understanding skiing, it's about understanding the students.
 
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karlo

karlo

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Understanding a wedge christie is not about understanding skiing, it's about understanding the students.

BTW, that a wedge christie is happening is an indication that the student, and we as instructors, are succeeding.
 
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