We Don't Talk About Altitude Sickness Enough

[Ken_R]

Some of you have read some of the TR from Mother's day.
We had a Beach spot adjacent to the NBS Crew and got to know them a bit, sharing a shotzski or two and realizing that we have a lot of common friends. The ski industry is pretty small after all.
One of these very cool dudes, Russell Fleming, returned home from Arapahoe Basin, still struggling with the affects of AMS and passed away earlier this week.
Jimmy, Russell and Phil

This is nothing to mess with folks. Take heed and be conscious of the signs.

That is TERRIBLE. I remember seeing him and his group and they were having a BLAST. It was awesome to see. Can't believe this happened. So sad.

 

[SBrown]

That is TERRIBLE. I remember seeing him and his group and they were having a BLAST. It was awesome to see. Can't believe this happened. So sad.

Yeah, I was around him for no more than 5 or 10 minutes, but the word that immediately came to mind was infectious. Everything about him. Really a bummer.

 

[Tricia]

Yeah, I was around him for no more than 5 or 10 minutes, but the word that immediately came to mind was infectious. Everything about him. Really a bummer.

Just looking at the picture of him with @jimmy and @Philpug, you can see the energy.
He was one of the big guys that accidentally dumped the shotzski on @margaritamarcia. That was quite the laugh.
This is all so unbelievable and yet so sadly real.

You and I have shared ski houses several times, often with someone who struggles with AMS.
We tend to give good advice and have taken the precautions of taking the person to lower elevations.
@Pequenita comes to mind.

Sometimes the person we are hanging out with feels better, so everything goes back to "business as usual".
I wonder how much the business as usual affects a possible return of AMS and the prolonged recovery.

 

[Monique]

One should be very careful taking sleeping pills at altitude. They can inhibit waking up when you can't breathe well.

I had never thought of this ...

 

[Bad Bob]

Read this today from another forum thought it might be of interest to those afflicted. Happy travels.

https://www.outsideonline.com/23994...40lRTGvdl0QqZs6mJf4BSyupPte786ZLOWwCwVtpbgtAA

 

[Mike King]

That's a good article! Thanks!!!

 

[djetok]

Last year I had a buddy, suggest Chlor Oxygen. Obviously being flat landers we are very conscious of the head aches associated with altitude sickness. We start pounding the water and take 2 chlor Oxygen pills per day. The side effects are it makes everything green that comes out your body. We typically always stay at high altitudes. It seems to work, or is it just all the water we continue to drink.

 

[James]

I think there’s zero evidence for taking Chlorophyl, Chlor Oxygen, but that never stopped an industry. I’m sure someone will recommend CBD’s from pot soon if they haven’t already.

Here’s a post from Trip Advisor 2yrs ago. You’ll have to go to each of these sites to check. I did not.
—————————
Chloroxygen is not recommended or even mentioned at :

the CDC altitude advisory , their Cusco and Kilimanjaro pages.

The Himalayan Rescue Association

The International Society for Mountain Medicine ( ismm.org )

The international climbing federation (theuiia.org )

The evidence based guidelines from Wilderness Medical Society (http://korta.nu/wem )
etc

There is also not a single mention in the only specialist journal, High Altitude Medicine & Biology ( http://korta.nu/ham )

No doubt this will be seen by a few as evidence of conspiracy.
———————-
https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTop...-Machu_Picchu_Sacred_Valley_Cusco_Region.html

 

[Wilhelmson]

Does\ anyone have an altitude sickness experience that didn't involve alcohol, dehydration, or general unhealthiness?

 

[pais alto]

Does\ anyone have an altitude sickness experience that didn't involve alcohol, dehydration, or general unhealthiness?

Yes. Living at 7200 feet and working at a ski area that’s between 10k and 12k feet, I often encounter people that are well rested, sober, well hydrated, and healthy that suffer from AMS symptoms. One of my next-door neighbors gets hit above 8000 feet no matter what she does, and she’s lived at 7200 feet for a dozen years.

Interesting article.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/12/131212095953.htm

One more:
http://www.altitude.org/altitude_sickness.php

What causes altitude sickness?
Two things are certain to make altitude sickness very likely - ascending faster than 500m per day, and exercising vigourously. Physically fit individuals are not protected - even Olympic athletes get altitude sickness. Altitude sickness happens because there is less oxygen in the air that you breathe at high altitudes.

Altitude sickness prevention
Go up slowly, take it easy, and give your body time to get used to the altitude. The body has an amazing ability to acclimatise to altitude, but it needs time. For instance, it takes about a week to adapt to an altitude of 5000m.

 

[SkiNurse]

Does\ anyone have an altitude sickness experience that didn't involve alcohol, dehydration, or general unhealthiness?

Yes. Living at 7200 feet and working at a ski area that’s between 10k and 12k feet, I often encounter people that are well rested, sober, well hydrated, and healthy that suffer from AMS symptoms. One of my next-door neighbors gets hit above 8000 feet no matter what she does, and she’s lived at 7200 feet for a dozen years.

Yep. It can hit anyone, at any time. Like @pais alto , I have several friends that live at altitude and their symptoms consistently hit at certain elevations; a couple of them pre-medicate with a diuretic and a steroid prior to their chosen activity.

 

[James]

Does\ anyone have an altitude sickness experience that didn't involve alcohol, dehydration, or general unhealthiness?

Yes.
One year staying in Dillon, CO at 9,200ft I couldn't sleep unless sitting up in a chair. First time that happened. Hasn't happened since. It felt like my lungs were filling with fluid, I'd wake up and cough. The sitting solved that but getting to sleep sitting was not easy but better than not sleeping at all.

One year at Abasin @jimmy and I took someone down to Silverthorne, about 2k feet less. I'd taken her to Abasin first aid expecting them to give Oxygen, but they just said to go down. A couple hours down there helped a lot.

 

[Tricia]

Yes.
One year staying in Dillon, CO at 9,200ft I couldn't sleep unless sitting up in a chair. First time that happened. Hasn't happened since. It felt like my lungs were filling with fluid, I'd wake up and cough. The sitting solved that but getting to sleep sitting was not easy but better than not sleeping at all.

One year at Abasin @jimmy and I took someone down to Silverthorne, about 2k feet less. I'd taken her to Abasin first aid expecting them to give Oxygen, but they just said to go down. A couple hours down there helped a lot.

That was @Pequenita.
She is a fit, active woman who has had a lot of experience at altitude.

 

[James]

That was @Pequenita.
She is a fit, active woman who has had a lot of experience at altitude.

As I recall she had come direct from DC that day.
Does an airplane count for aclimatizing if the interior is roughly like 7k ft?

 

[Analisa]

Re: healthy, hydrated people getting altitude sickness - absolutely. I may not be the end-all-be-all pinnacle example of health and on-mountain self care, but for Rainier climbs, my partners take bets on what elevation I'll start yakking. Likewise, most people who die of HAPE/HACE are particularly fit - they're the ones able to get to extreme elevations where elevation starts getting deadly. And realistically, everyone gets altitude sickness. It's just a question of how high, how quick the ascent is, and how strenuous the activity is. (Which explains why I'm fine save for being a little winded for my first day skiing at Breck or don't have any issues climbing in CO after spending a day or two in Denver or Estes Park).

Does an airplane count for aclimatizing if the interior is roughly like 7k ft?

Maybe better than nothing? It generally takes 1-3 days for the major biological changes to take effect that impact AMS symptoms, and 2-3 weeks for bodies to really be "done" increasing red blod cell count & the enzyme that releases oxygen from hemoglobin. And that process stops the minute the cabin's depressurized at a lower elevation.

 

[Pequenita]

As I recall she had come direct from DC that day.
Does an airplane count for aclimatizing if the interior is roughly like 7k ft?

Nah. I had spent the night in Frisco, but it was a late flight in. My experience (based on a sample of, like, 5) is that to not have mild altitude sickness when flying from sea level to a base over 9500', I need to have ~18 hours before resort skiing and more time if I'm actually going to be hiking. The times I arrived midday the day before and then skied the following day have been fine.

To some extent, I think flying is a factor that messes me up. I've driven from sea level to over 9'000 and backcountry skied in a span of 5 hours. It's comical how slow I am, but I don't get headachy or anything else.

 

[Wilhelmson]

The time I had trouble we took a redeye to SLC and stayed at 4200' for that day and night, but I stayed up too late, etc. I didn't sleep well and maybe got 4 hours of decent sleep. Then next day at Alta I was fine for about half the day but then the clouds filled in and I felt a bit woozy. We had lunch and some water mid mountain and I was ok for the rest of the day but took it slow. Back down in SLC that night I ate lots of food and went to bed early. I was fine skiing for the next 8 days.

The other time we stayed at Alta base for a wedding and enjoyed the usual revelry. The next day around 9 am my wife and I decided to start hiking up the blast zone saddle next to the road to check out the wildflowers. Sort of a dumb idea without much breakfast and a few drinks, but it doesn't look that high from the road. By the time you get to the top it gets steep and you realize that if you fell you would just start rolling down. It was very hot. We peered over the edge to the other side and my wife got a little anxious which probably made me feel the same, so we descended without incident. Interestingly it made me realize I wanted to stop traveling for work and settle down; maybe a little dehydration and oxygen deprivation can be a good thing in moderation.

 

[mdf]

I've been lucky -- I am rarely affected, and when I am it is just loss of appetite (and even more rarely headache).
It is a strange experience, because I don't realize I have no appetite, so I will order food and when it arrives discover I can't eat it.

 

[skibob]

I'm not an MD, but I want to reiterate what I've said before. IMHO, it is important to get enough sugar and salt (as well as water) when you might be dealing with altitude effects. Altitude changes are no occasion for fasting or low carb (or low salt). All of these things keep your blood volume and blood sugar up which helps the body deal with altitude effects.

 

[Wilhelmson]

I'm not an MD, but I want to reiterate what I've said before. IMHO, it is important to get enough sugar and salt (as well as water) when you might be dealing with altitude effects. Altitude changes are no occasion for fasting or low carb (or low salt). All of these things keep your blood volume and blood sugar up which helps the body deal with altitude effects.

Besides the unlucky x% that are prone to altitude sickness my guess is the rest either exercise too fast too soon, forget to eat their veggies, or party like a rock star.