Vail's Latest Acquisitions: Okemo, Sunapee, Crested Butte, and Stevens Pass

[John O]

I wonder how much Alterra has already offered Loveland. Luv is full given its limited parking, but is there a price for everything?

I hope not more than I trust not.

Given today's announcement, that apparently doesn't matter. I'd say Stevens Pass is full by pretty much anyone's definition. They run out of parking every just about every Saturday and Sunday in January and February and turn a lot of customers away. However most people I've talked to really don't want them to add any parking unless they add more terrain too, because the lift lines are already pretty long on weekends.

 

[x10003q]

and Beryllium Spheres

 

[jack97]

I think climate change is part of what’s driving this... being able to spread out weather risk in a given year is becoming more and more important as the seasons get more erratic. Makes sense to really get into as many regions as you can.

Don't kid yourself, the seasons have always had natural variations. I've spent enough time at Sunapee and talked with locals while riding up the lift. They love the Muellers for placing snow guns all over the place, before this they remember times when the trails were bare or icy.

What's enabling this is traveling has become more affordable. Along with lower air fare, the mileage points can transfers from work travel. Same holds for lodging and care rental. I know someone from work who has enough points from a hotel chain, he can get a luxury suite at a per diem rate for both work and personal travel.

 

[nay]

Airbnb is a major factor in turning everywhere into a destination.

Now all you need is a pass. Oh, wait...

 

[BTaylor]

I think climate change is part of what’s driving this... being able to spread out weather risk in a given year is becoming more and more important as the seasons get more erratic. Makes sense to really get into as many regions as you can.

Rob Katz recently gave a fairly extensive interview to Whistler's Pique news-magazine's editors. I think it's an interesting read that reinforces many of the observations in this thread (and others) about how resort owners are responding to the risks of warming winters, searching for business strategies that guarantee continued infrastructure investment on the mountain, grappling with the challenges in workforce housing, etc.

A Q&A with Vail Resorts CEO Rob Katz

And maybe addressing the Whistler slur of "Rob Katz Skis in Jeans"!

 

[Doug Briggs]

And Transparent Aluminium.

I've only heard of transparasteel.

 

[Doug Briggs]

See what happens when you live under the Death Star?

All joking aside, apart from the seasonal workers (that BTW voluntarily apply for and gain employment said employment despite everyone's complaints on the internet) that would rather ski/ride than show up and run lifts, etc. and gripe about having to work for their living, people that live here in Breckenridge and the surrounding area and work for the ski area are generally happy with their jobs.

 

[Doug Briggs]

Given today's announcement, that apparently doesn't matter. I'd say Stevens Pass is full by pretty much anyone's definition. They run out of parking every just about every Saturday and Sunday in January and February and turn a lot of customers away. However most people I've talked to really don't want them to add any parking unless they add more terrain too, because the lift lines are already pretty long on weekends.

And Arapahoe Basin in the spring. They bus people from Keystone's parking lot.

 

[James]

Snorgtees.com
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[nay]

And Arapahoe Basin in the spring. They bus people from Keystone's parking lot.

Loveland fortunately does not. Loveland also appears to be largely one person per car, is part of the Subaru Rapture Program (large amounts of people who take up parking in really clean Subarus and don’t ski), and has a lot more uphill lift capacity than it has parking overly widely distributed terrain.

That latter metric seems relatively unique. One wonders how badly most places would be overrun if it didn’t leave people in lift lines. We may find out as more six packs, bubble chairs, and the likes are deployed.

It’s a bit like the question of expanding I-70, which will just choke again almost immediately. Isn’t it best to leave them on the highway?

 

[LKLA]

Bummer. This kind of consolidation is ultimately not good for the consumer. Vail and Alterra having a chokehold on the entire industry means huge pricing power for them.

All I can do is buy more Vail shares as I shake my head at where this is all heading for the consumer.

And yet I pay half for the my season pass at Vail in 2018 than I did back in 2015

Rob Katz recently gave a fairly extensive interview to Whistler's Pique news-magazine's editors. I think it's an interesting read that reinforces many of the observations in this thread (and others) about how resort owners are responding to the risks of warming winters, searching for business strategies that guarantee continued infrastructure investment on the mountain, grappling with the challenges in workforce housing, etc.

A Q&A with Vail Resorts CEO Rob Katz

And maybe addressing the Whistler slur of "Rob Katz Skis in Jeans"!

I have skied in jeans, back when I was 10 years old. Hunter Mountain, jeans, gators, that’s exactly where I did my initial skiing. And guess what? Everyone else at Hunter Mountain skied in jeans and New York Jets jerseys.

 

[Bill Miles]

And Transparent Aluminium.

When I was an aircraft fuel system engineer, we wanted some of this to see what was going on inside our test article.

 

[Doug Briggs]

And yet I pay half for the my season pass at Vail in 2018 than I did back in 2015


I have skied in jeans, back when I was 10 years old. Hunter Mountain, jeans, gators, that’s exactly where I did my initial skiing. And guess what? Everyone else at Hunter Mountain skied in jeans and New York Jets jerseys.

On pass prices: exactly! More passes are sold at crazy low prices, there are more skiers, but then there is more terrain and new lifts.

On jeans:

Colorization by @Dave Petersen, skis by Head, boots by Scott, bindings by Look, training pants by Levi.

 

[Doug Briggs]

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If you promote (fill in the blank) POVs often enough, people will believe them. It has been shown that it works for politicians, I guess it works for internet posters as well. Truth lies in the (idle) hands of the persistent.

 

[bbinder]

And a blanket!

And a gin and tonic.

 

[carvemeister]

Ski Red Mtn. Now the best mountain in North America. Fight the man.

 

[Tricia]

This post got buried back in February.
https://www.pugski.com/threads/jay-peak-and-burke-go-up-for-sale-in-may.8709/

Jay Peak, Burke to go on the market in May.
https://vtdigger.org/2018/02/14/jay-peak-burke-go-market-may/

The chatter about buying more properties, well....

 

[Core2]

I challenge you all to boycott Vail. Seriously, F*ck this company. They ultimately are responsible for the death of EpicSki. They are buying up ski areas and ruining the soul of skiing as they do it. They pay their employees, at the ski areas and in the corporate offices, below livable and industry standard wages because they think season pass and the "privilege" of working for them is worth it. They are a faceless, soulless, money making machine that doesn't give a f*ck what happens to this sport and the communities that support it as long as they can report good numbers to the street. I know some of you guys don't care about this because it just means you get more pass options and you really suck for that.

 

[wallyk]

Bummer. This kind of consolidation is ultimately not good for the consumer. Vail and Alterra having a chokehold on the entire industry means huge pricing power for them.

All I can do is buy more Vail shares as I shake my head at where this is all heading for the consumer.

This type of economies of scale in the ski industry was wayyyyy over due and I don't see how this is bad for a majority of consumers. ....From what I experience skiing has become more congested as the cost of travel has declined, the population has grown, personal disposable income has grown, and the desire to live/work, and vacation away from the costal cities has increased. Look at the population surge in Denver, Tahoe and Montana areas.......not a surprise why people are aggressively relocating there. Those who embrace the "outdoors" life and pursue mtn. biking and skiing want better facilities.

Vail, I don't work for them, has the access to capital, the managerial experience and the risk tolerance to make resort skiing a brand name experience.

After reading this and other threads here I'm forced to ask "what's wrong with the Vail experience and business model?"

 

[dovski]

No doubt, we had a pretty good snow year this season. What Stevens also gives Vail is some serious terrain. Stevens is not going to appeal to Vail’s core of vacationers who want wide, perfectly groomed intermediate slopes, along with slope side lodging. It will appeal to their pass holders who want some easily accessible steeper terrain, with enough snowfall to get it all covered early January, often by Xmas.

That said, I think it’s mostly to get the Seattle-Tacoma-Everett metro skiers and boarders to visit other Vail resorts and spend money on lodging, food and everything else.

I used to ski Stevens with my family when they had the PNW Advantage passes which made it a reasonable add on to our other season passes at Alpental. Alpental is our regular mountain but it was nice to go Stevens every now and then. In the last three seasons they have eliminated most of their discounts and become the most expensive mountain the greater Seattle area (Crystal lets kids 10 and under ski free), so we stopped going to Stevens as we get better deals at Sun Peaks and Whistler.

This year the Summit at Snoqualmie had a special discount on the Mountain Collective Pass if you bought your season pass before April 6th. We did that along with the Edge Card. I think this may have forced Stevens Pass' hand. Simply put they need to compete and aligning with Vail adds more value to the end customer in this case. I really like Stevens and this may push us to consider an Epic Pass next year if they are part of it. That would also change the resorts we travel too as I would not buy an Epic pass, Mount Collective and Alpental pass, would not make sense.