Vail's Latest Acquisitions: Okemo, Sunapee, Crested Butte, and Stevens Pass

[Monster]

Does the current Sunappe west side permit involve real estate development or just more terrain? From what I read a couple years ago it was just terrain, and all 5 surrounding towns supported it. The big downside to Sunapee is it's mellow terrain. An expansion with better terrain would be welcome.

That's land use for you. People in one area don't want any more development, and towns 80 miles away are reeling from the bankruptcy of hermiage.

Yes, the west side does include the possibility of condo development on abutting land outside of the state park. It's private land and was part of the approval. That was a lot of the drive to do it. Muellers ceded land to the park in exchange for the ski infrastructure development - as I understand it, more than will be occupied by trails, lifts, lodge, etc. While it was happening, I was up on it - details a little faded now, but you can read about it online.

I don't think the terrain is going to be any less mellow; however, if they get a high speed lift onto the north peak and one from the bottom of the Sun Bowl to the N/P, things will get more interesting. Laps on Lynx are ok. . .

Now, I'm a skier and I think if you're going to develop ski areas, often the least impact is to develop existing areas. That said, despite the fact that Lake Sunapee has been a resort destination for over a hundred years and has long been locked up in shore-front properties, there are plenty of locals who want it to stay as is - NIMBY.

The wife of one of my friends actually stood up in one hearing and asked Mueller to his face "Exactly how much money do you need to be happy?", hahahaha

 

[Big J]

For a number of years there was a plan to expand west of Brooks Chair in an area called "Summit Lakes." This would be intermediate terrain. They used to have it published on their web site but it looks like it was removed. Don't know if it's still being considered.

Here is another idea for expansion at Stevens Pass. The back side has the lifts Jupiter and Southern Cross. Jupiter is mostly blue and Sourthern Cross is mostly black. If you look up the mountain from the base of Jupiter and Southern Cross chairlifts and to the right of Southern Cross it seems that it begs for long blue runs to the far right. Stevens never wants to spend the money to groom there as they claim it is for powder. The problem with that logic is that most of the time the "powder is so heavy it cannot be skied with any sort of enjoyment. If Vail was willing to do some extra grooming on the back side I think it would be feasible to put in blue runs to the right of Southern Cross chairlift as you are looking up the mountain. Seems an inexpensive way for lots of expansion for little money unless I am missing something.

 

[Big J]

Here is another idea for expansion at Stevens Pass. The back side has the lifts Jupiter and Southern Cross. Jupiter is mostly blue and Sourthern Cross is mostly black. If you look up the mountain from the base of Jupiter and Southern Cross chairlifts and to the right of Southern Cross it seems that it begs for long blue runs to the far right. Stevens never wants to spend the money to groom there as they claim it is for powder. The problem with that logic is that most of the time the "powder is so heavy it cannot be skied with any sort of enjoyment. If Vail was willing to do some extra grooming on the back side I think it would be feasible to put in blue runs to the right of Southern Cross chairlift as you are looking up the mountain. Seems an inexpensive way for lots of expansion for little money unless I am missing something.

According to the internet the Vail purchase of Stevens Pass closed on August 16th. I hope this is correct as I will be purchasing the Epic Military Pass for my wife and myself.

 

[Big J]

According to the internet the Vail purchase of Stevens Pass closed on August 16th. I hope this is correct as I will be purchasing the Epic Military Pass for my wife and myself.

Here is the link: https://www.denverpost.com/2018/08/16/vail-resorts-buys-stevens-pass/

 

[Big J]

Here is the link: https://www.denverpost.com/2018/08/16/vail-resorts-buys-stevens-pass/

Also: http://news.vailresorts.com/corporate/stevenspassclose.htm

 

[John O]

Here is another idea for expansion at Stevens Pass. The back side has the lifts Jupiter and Southern Cross. Jupiter is mostly blue and Sourthern Cross is mostly black. If you look up the mountain from the base of Jupiter and Southern Cross chairlifts and to the right of Southern Cross it seems that it begs for long blue runs to the far right. Stevens never wants to spend the money to groom there as they claim it is for powder. The problem with that logic is that most of the time the "powder is so heavy it cannot be skied with any sort of enjoyment. If Vail was willing to do some extra grooming on the back side I think it would be feasible to put in blue runs to the right of Southern Cross chairlift as you are looking up the mountain. Seems an inexpensive way for lots of expansion for little money unless I am missing something.

I think you are misjudging that terrain over there. Stevens' approved Master Development Plan (which could get completely scrapped now, and was never guaranteed to be implemented anyway) had terrain expansion into that area, but it was all marked as double black diamond terrain. So, I think that's the piece you're missing.

Also...

The problem with that logic is that most of the time the "powder is so heavy it cannot be skied with any sort of enjoyment.

Gonna go ahead and disagree with you on that one.

 

[Big J]

John,
Thanks for the info. Was just an idea.

 

[David Chaus]

I think for where Stevens would have the best combination of exposure (thus the quality of the snow) and terrain for expansion would be to the east of Kehr’s/Big Chief. The Master Development Plan had envisioned a chair from the far end of parking lot E, up to the top of the ridge, and to open all that territory, mostly gladed with maybe one or two groomed or sometimes-groomed trails. If Vail can do that, I might even like them.

 

[John O]

I think for where Stevens would have the best combination of exposure (thus the quality of the snow) and terrain for expansion would be to the east of Kehr’s/Big Chief. The Master Development Plan had envisioned a chair from the far end of parking lot E, up to the top of the ridge, and to open all that territory, mostly gladed with maybe one or two groomed or sometimes-groomed trails. If Vail can do that, I might even like them.

Yup, I liked both that idea and the Grace Lakes expansion a lot, primarily because it gives additional front side terrain that doesn't funnel people to Hogsback and Skyline. Anything to spread people out a little more is a good thing. That terrain that you're talking about next to Big Chief would be fun, relatively mellow, gladed terrain, and it'd be nice to be able to ski all the way to the lot without having to hike out of there, or having to cut your run short to start traversing back. Plus being able to park over there and get on the mountain without having to walk over to the base area would be a nice bonus.

We'll see if any of that ever happens though.

 

[Big J]

Yup, I liked both that idea and the Grace Lakes expansion a lot, primarily because it gives additional front side terrain that doesn't funnel people to Hogsback and Skyline. Anything to spread people out a little more is a good thing. That terrain that you're talking about next to Big Chief would be fun, relatively mellow, gladed terrain, and it'd be nice to be able to ski all the way to the lot without having to hike out of there, or having to cut your run short to start traversing back. Plus being able to park over there and get on the mountain without having to walk over to the base area would be a nice bonus.

We'll see if any of that ever happens though.

I agree with this as discussed earlier in this thread. Who knows what they will do now that the deal is done.

 

[noncrazycanuck]

maybe you'll get lucky and Vail will do it all.
Seemed to me (on one stop only) a bit of upgrading would help.
They certainly are spending the money at Whistler, 3 big upgrades to lifts should be ready for opening day.
The newest summer attraction, the suspension bridge over Whistler Bowl, is also open.

of course hotel and ticket prices have more than kept up.

 

[noncrazycanuck]

just checked the site on prices - currently a single day ticket is listed at 126 cdn or 97 us @ .77 dollars

my senior season pass is now paid off in 7 days - used to be 21 days to break even - don't mind that, but doubt I would have started the kids skiing there now.

 

[Big J]

maybe you'll get lucky and Vail will do it all.
Seemed to me (on one stop only) a bit of upgrading would help.
They certainly are spending the money at Whistler, 3 big upgrades to lifts should be ready for opening day.
The newest summer attraction, the suspension bridge over Whistler Bowl, is also open.

of course hotel and ticket prices have more than kept up.

Thanks for the info. My wife and I are upgrading to the Epic Pass that is also good at Whistler. Being about 45 minutes north of Seattle it is a pretty easy drive for us. Perhaps as we get closer to going I may trouble you with a PM for some lodging suggestions.

 

[noncrazycanuck]

your a bit optimistic on that drive, i live close to the border and its 1:45 from my house.
however very happy to help you out if I can, or show you around if the timing works

 

[David Chaus]

Without traffic or border delays it takes me about 3 1/2 hours to get to Whistler from Smokey Point.

 

[noncrazycanuck]

Smokey Point is everywhere right now.

 

[David Chaus]

True enough. But the geographical region knows as Smokey Point is a little north of where Big J lives.

 

[dbostedo]

your a bit optimistic on that drive, i live close to the border and its 1:45 from my house.
however very happy to help you out if I can, or show you around if the timing works

I think maybe you misread @Big J 's post. He's not saying that Whistler is 45 mins from Seattle. He's saying that HE lives 45 mins north of Seattle and therefore Whistler is a pretty easy drive (which I guess depends on your definition of easy drive).

 

[Big J]

I think maybe you misread @Big J 's post. He's not saying that Whistler is 45 mins from Seattle. He's saying that HE lives 45 mins north of Seattle and therefore Whistler is a pretty easy drive (which I guess depends on your definition of easy drive).

Mapquest says 3-1/2 hours from where I live in Marysville, WA. A lot faster than having to catch a flight somewhere.

 

[Big J]

Without traffic or border delays it takes me about 3 1/2 hours to get to Whistler from Smokey Point.

I am about 10 minutes south of Smokey Point which is actually North Marysville.