• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

Colorado Vail Resorts false advertising

dovski

Waxing my skis and praying for snow
Skier
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
Posts
2,859
Location
Seattle
I think we'll have to agree to disagree. :beercheer:

The way I look at the advertising question goes like this: Say a Brick-and-Mortar shop makes up signs advertising a special and hangs them in the front window and around the store. Then, the promotion ends and they take all of the signs down and put them out in the alley with the trash. Then, someone goes searching around the alley and finds the signs and tells all of their friends about the signs. Then, everyone grabs a sign and walks in the door and demands the special. Are they owed the special? I say, "Get the f*&k outta my store with that."
From my perspective this is really a customer service issue as they did not say they canceled the promotion, but rather said we are not sure if they we will be able to honor the promotion, we are still deciding. This is the issue, by their own admission they advertised something that they are now considering not honoring and their communication with their customers is terrible. This is bad customer service.

Also per your analogy of a brick and mortar is not 100% correct, it is more like this " I advertise a big sale and I marked down a bunch of items for the sale. The sale ended, I take down my adds but I forget to change the price tags on the items. When a customer goes to check out what I ring up at the till is higher than the price tag on the item, do I honor the price tag or force the customer to pay higher prices because I am no longer advertising the sale?" Simply put, the store screwed up and is now presented with a customer service issue, the only question is how do the handle it.


I think we'll have to agree to disagree. :beercheer:
 

raytseng

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Mar 24, 2016
Posts
3,330
Location
SF Bay Area
Anyone who uses a deal website would know that 50%+ of deals and promos may not pan out for one reason or another, and they expire or don't work even should the page/link still be up. So pointing out a deal website is not a very strong argument to me. People that actually use a dealsite I would think would be accustomed to the deals falling through, getting changed unilaterally, or otherwise reneged on. The outcome is most often cancelation too, should the timeframe be so far out. Bad customer service, but they play "the game".
This is what gets me, Is it truly people are so successful to score every single deal/promo you've run across or signed up for without cancellations/reneging/changes? Is that is the reason why this outcome and treatment is somehow shocking and outragemeter escalated to 100% so fast; and somehow you all are better dealhunters than me and never have been disappointed or let down.
How are you able to navigate life only dealing with good companies and only have outcomes always resolved to these standards, and never having to deal with disputes and bad customer service and have to choose whether to fight about it or let it go; or is this internet bravado internet echochamber and people are bored in summer. Have you never had to try to buy a used car before or deal with craigslisters?
 
Last edited:

François Pugh

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
7,617
Location
Great White North (Eastern side currently)
Yeah, I don't expect a website deal to pan out.......if it's a never-heard of Chinese website for a Spider jacket for $9.99. :rolleyes:
Other websites like ASO Gear, etc. I expect to honour the deals they make.

"Lots of fake advertising on the web" is no excuse for your fake advertising.
BTW as has been pointed out there is still no confirmation that the advertising is indeed fake, just some customer service reps reported to be trying to sell passes by stating that the deal MIGHT not be honoured.
 

dovski

Waxing my skis and praying for snow
Skier
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
Posts
2,859
Location
Seattle
Yeah, I don't expect a website deal to pan out.......if it's a never-heard of Chinese website for a Spider jacket for $9.99. :rolleyes:
Other websites like ASO Gear, etc. I expect to honour the deals they make.

"Lots of fake advertising on the web" is no excuse for your fake advertising.
BTW as has been pointed out there is still no confirmation that the advertising is indeed fake, just some customer service reps reported to be trying to sell passes by stating that the deal MIGHT not be honoured.
Agree deal has not officially been rescinded but the customer service and communication has been lousy
 

raytseng

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Mar 24, 2016
Posts
3,330
Location
SF Bay Area
Yeah, I don't expect a website deal to pan out.......if it's a never-heard of Chinese website for a Spider jacket for $9.99. :rolleyes:
Other websites like ASO Gear, etc. I expect to honour the deals they make.

"Lots of fake advertising on the web" is no excuse for your fake advertising.
BTW as has been pointed out there is still no confirmation that the advertising is indeed fake, just some customer service reps reported to be trying to sell passes by stating that the deal MIGHT not be honoured.
not talking about fake deals from lowchance sites, but travel deals that big travel corporations renege on too rather than fulfill. If you want to split hairs on dealtypes, the big companies fail and renege too.
 

BC.

NEPA ShopRat/Skier
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Aug 27, 2017
Posts
2,035
Location
Lake Wallenpaupack, PA
I am getting emails from them about my credits and having to “accept” credit terms and agreements....I’m getting pissed at all this “small print” bull they are piling on here at the last minute. I opened up the link, and there was nothing to click to “accept” anything....so I am becoming very skeptical of the whole thing.

I have a feeling I’m/ we are going to get screwed here.....and they are not going to follow through with these credits they offered....and I’m gonna get charged full blast in November.

Anybody else feel they are making it so confusing, that we are all gonna get screwed in the end?....or am I just paranoid?

At this point, this small print crap has me wishing I totally should of just cancelled back in September.....

/rant
 

mtngirl

Putting on skis
Skier
Joined
Apr 6, 2020
Posts
40
Location
Colorado
I am getting emails from them about my credits and having to “accept” credit terms and agreements....I’m getting pissed at all this “small print” bull they are piling on here at the last minute. I opened up the link, and there was nothing to click to “accept” anything....so I am becoming very skeptical of the whole thing.

I have a feeling I’m/ we are going to get screwed here.....and they are not going to follow through with these credits they offered....and I’m gonna get charged full blast in November.

Anybody else feel they are making it so confusing, that we are all gonna get screwed in the end?....or am I just paranoid?

At this point, this small print crap has me wishing I totally should of just cancelled back in September.....

/rant

My understanding of the emails was that if you took the credit they offered you cannot join a class action suit (or you won't get any money out of it if you do join). If someone has an issue with that trade-off they can call Vail and get the credit reversed. Otherwise you don't have to do anything.
 

BC.

NEPA ShopRat/Skier
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Aug 27, 2017
Posts
2,035
Location
Lake Wallenpaupack, PA
My understanding of the emails was that if you took the credit they offered you cannot join a class action suit (or you won't get any money out of it if you do join). If someone has an issue with that trade-off they can call Vail and get the credit reversed. Otherwise you don't have to do anything.

Thanks...appreciate the help in relieving my angst...:)
 

dovski

Waxing my skis and praying for snow
Skier
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
Posts
2,859
Location
Seattle
My understanding of the emails was that if you took the credit they offered you cannot join a class action suit (or you won't get any money out of it if you do join). If someone has an issue with that trade-off they can call Vail and get the credit reversed. Otherwise you don't have to do anything.
So really what they are offering is not a credit but an enticement to ensure no one sues them full stop. Interesting, my hill just gave me credits for both our passes and ski programs no questions asked. When I had challenges with their system applying them, their head of operations with their head of IT called me to figure things out and make it right. By the end of the call they wanted to know if I would be interested in signing on as an instructor and getting almost everything for free. Not once did I have sign a liability or legal waiver, very nice human approach with real people. Now I know what you are going to say, that's the beauty of the small locally owned hills vs. big ski corporation, and that would be true if it was not for the fact this hill is owned by Boyne :)
 

dovski

Waxing my skis and praying for snow
Skier
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
Posts
2,859
Location
Seattle
It can be both.
If you attach a limit of liability contract to a credit, then really the credit is just part of that agreement as opposed to a stand alone. So sure you get a credit but not without jumping through all the legal requirements. I get it but not necessary in these circumstances, this is not an accident settlement but rather a customer service offering to their valued customers who already do not have any recourse given the terms already attached to their season passes. Simply put they are not liable for weather, ski conditions, acts of god .... etc. In other words almost all if not all resorts have that standard language in their passholder agreements, for everyone else the credits are a an aspect of customer service to entice their customers to come back next year no legal liability waiver needed.
 

dbostedo

Asst. Gathermeister
Moderator
Contributor
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Posts
18,095
Location
75% Virginia, 25% Colorado
...who already do not have any recourse given the terms already attached to their season passes...
Sure, as far as I would guess too. But I'm willing to bet a lawsuit without the additional clausing on the credit would still go through a lot of legal wrangling and be expensive. I.e. rather than wait and see how lawsuits over last year will play out, they're trying to be proactive and short circuit as much potential liability as possible. So they can give people credit's to make up for what happened last year, and reduce their potential liability at the same time. Two things.
 

crgildart

Gravity Slave
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
16,325
Location
The Bull City
I think it's relevant info if OP (and others?) have cashed in on the same deal previous seasons at the same resort sucessfully. If so the argument that it's an unreliable source so it's an unreliable deal doesn't hold any water. Add in that the customer service AT that resort also recognizes it as a valid promotion... that might be rescinded. Poor customer service yes, illegal bait ans switch? Probably yes if the deal isn't honored in the end. In the end what do you do? Will you or your credit card company go to court over the price of a couple kid lift tickets? They're betting you won't. If you do they just cry COVID business disruptions and the jury might side with them..
 
Last edited:

Bill Miles

Old Man Groomer Zoomer
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Posts
1,315
Location
Hailey, Idaho
If you attach a limit of liability contract to a credit, then really the credit is just part of that agreement as opposed to a stand alone. So sure you get a credit but not without jumping through all the legal requirements. I get it but not necessary in these circumstances, this is not an accident settlement but rather a customer service offering to their valued customers who already do not have any recourse given the terms already attached to their season passes. Simply put they are not liable for weather, ski conditions, acts of god .... etc. In other words almost all if not all resorts have that standard language in their passholder agreements, for everyone else the credits are a an aspect of customer service to entice their customers to come back next year no legal liability waiver needed.

I looked and couldn't find anything like this for Sun Valley. We do have to agree to a liability waiver, but it only covers things like injury or death and exempts them from negligence except in the case of a public duty. We did get a decent credit (20%) without strings attached and the pass price went down $100 from last year (still expensive.)
 

crgildart

Gravity Slave
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
16,325
Location
The Bull City
I looked and couldn't find anything like this for Sun Valley. We do have to agree to a liability waiver, but it only covers things like injury or death and exempts them from negligence except in the case of a public duty. We did get a decent credit (20%) without strings attached and the pass price went down $100 from last year (still expensive.)
It's not always necessary. Basic contract law almost always has exceptions for reasonably unforeseen disasters that don't have to be in writing.. stuff that any reasonable person would agree is beyond the control of the party on the end of the contractual obligation. Being shut down or severely limited by a legitimate government entity mandate (for something way beyond the control of the business) certainly falls under that category of things that might not have to be expressly stated in the written contract terms.
 

dovski

Waxing my skis and praying for snow
Skier
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
Posts
2,859
Location
Seattle
It's not always necessary. Basic contract law almost always has exceptions for reasonably unforeseen disasters that don't have to be in writing.. stuff that any reasonable person would agree is beyond the control of the party on the end of the contractual obligation. Being shut down or severely limited by a legitimate government entity mandate (for something way beyond the control of the business) certainly falls under that category of things that might not have to be expressly stated in the written contract terms.
Boyne used to sell snow guarantees/pass insurance separately and had language in the pass holder agreement and liability waiver that basically said we do not control the weather and cannot guarantee conditions ... etc. Even with that they always did something for passholders if the season was terrible, typically a credit towards the next season. This ensured that everyone renewed their passes but was also great customer relations.
 

Bill Miles

Old Man Groomer Zoomer
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Posts
1,315
Location
Hailey, Idaho
It's not always necessary. Basic contract law almost always has exceptions for reasonably unforeseen disasters that don't have to be in writing.. stuff that any reasonable person would agree is beyond the control of the party on the end of the contractual obligation. Being shut down or severely limited by a legitimate government entity mandate (for something way beyond the control of the business) certainly falls under that category of things that might not have to be expressly stated in the written contract terms.

So, if they are shutdown by the government after one day they get to keep 100% of the money, even though the pass specified unlimited days during the season? And they still get to keep 100% of the money even though their operating expenses (salaries, electricity, etc.) are greatly decreased? I agree that they cannot be held to specific performance (requirement to stay open), but not about keeping the money. Any case law dealing with this situation as opposed to specific payment for a specific purchase, such as an airline flight?

In any case, my comment was that not all areas actually have this standard language in their agreement/contract.
 

crgildart

Gravity Slave
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
16,325
Location
The Bull City
So, if they are shutdown by the government after one day they get to keep 100% of the money, even though the pass specified unlimited days during the season? And they still get to keep 100% of the money even though their operating expenses (salaries, electricity, etc.) are greatly decreased? I agree that they cannot be held to specific performance (requirement to stay open), but not about keeping the money. Any case law dealing with this situation as opposed to specific payment for a specific purchase, such as an airline flight?

In any case, my comment was that not all areas actually have this standard language in their agreement/contract.
I don't know of anyone who has gotten their gym membership money back.. only credit towards future gym fees. same goes for movie passes. Gift cards from businesses that fail or can't open don't get refunded either..
 

raytseng

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Mar 24, 2016
Posts
3,330
Location
SF Bay Area
for all the internet lawyers i think there is overfocus on the chapter of the basis of what forms a contract.

Please read ahead to the next chapters on how breaches get resolved, that's where the true meat happens. Specifically focus on areas of good faith, material/non material breaches, and unjust enrichment (from either party, not just from defendant).

In the area of travel related case law and commonlaw , the material part of a lodging contract is the room. the addons and promotions would be considered ammenities, just like if the pool was unavailable or the resort was shutdown.

In the area of flights which is even more regulated than hotels with flyer "bill of rights" even, there is a specific law addressing this under "pricing mistakes" when the flight is far out. The general resolution is to return the parties to their original state, it is not to fulfill the contract (rescission)
 
Last edited:

Sponsor

Staff online

  • Dwight
    Practitioner of skiing, solid and liquid
Top