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Colorado Vail Resorts false advertising

Alumacraft3

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We booked a ski vacation with Keystone lodging. The whole reason we booked with the resort and not a cheaper air bnb option is because they offer a kids ski free package if you stay at least 2 nights with them. I finally got ahold of them today after days of trying to ask how the kids ski free option would work with the reservation system. The lady informed me that they got word from management that they might not be offering the kids ski free option this year. My wife and I just purchased our epic passes a couple days ago because pass holders get first chance at reservations for the days they want. If they decide to not offer the kids ski free package as advertised we can’t get a refund on our passes and the trip just got way more expensive because we would have to buy our kids epic passes to hopefully ensure we get the dates we have booked. If they take the kids ski free option away it’s false advertising plain and simple. I regret giving any money to Vail resorts. Never again!
 

Philpug

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I don't think it is false advertising but Yes, this is unfortunate. My suggestion is to contact them again with all of the facts that you have when you booked the appointment, ideally screenshots and all the verbiage. Very well some of these changes were made either post aor while you were making reservations. Call back, be calm and collected and work your way up the chain. Maybe they can switch the kids over to privates, there would not really be a cost to them (maybe less profit) and they can keep your money and not lose you and your family as a customer and the thousands of dollars you will be spending there.
 

crgildart

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^^^^This

Or, leave the kids with grandma/aunt/uncle somebody while you go skiing.
 

Après Skier

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What a nice family ski trip! Your children are very lucky.
Here is a screen shot of the promotion on the Keystone website. Sounds like some sort of mix-up. I hope you get this all sorted out without further aggravation.
 

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François Pugh

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The lady informed me that they got word from management that they might not be offering the kids ski free option this year.
They might not be, and then again the might be. Regardless, they did offer it (see screenshot) and you accepted their offer. Done. If they insist on charging for kids skiing, pay it and sue them in small claims court (they will have to pay their lawyers more than they make off of you).
 
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Alumacraft3

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I don’t want to start an argument but if it’s not false advertising then there has to be another term for it because it’s just plain wrong. It might be likely that going forward they aren’t offering it anymore to new bookings and the lady I talked to had the wrong information but she made it clear they were going to decide in the next couple weeks if they are honoring the kids ski free deal. I can get a refund on the lodging at this point but the passes are another story. We bought them specifically for this trip and if they don’t honor the kids ski free we either have to buy two more passes for our kids or cancel the trip all together and eat the price of the passes. Either way it’s not cheap. Trying to get ahold of anyone at Vail resorts has been a nightmare up to this point and I’m sure it will only get worse especially if I’m trying to get a refund. I just can’t believe they are even considering doing this.
 

Muleski

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I’d also wait until next week to try resolve. Trying to get anybody to be helpful this week is almost impossible with all of the activity on Epic Pass sales. I speak from experience, HaHa.
I would bet dollars to donuts that the OP’s issue will be resolved in their favor. They accepted an offer extended to them. VR will back that, IMO. I’m no fan boy, but have found them to be pretty reasonable.

Good luck!
 
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Alumacraft3

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I called again today to see if the lady I talked to yesterday had the wrong information. The gentleman I talked to today confirmed what I was told yesterday. They are deciding what to do about kids ski free with the reservation system and are considering doing away with the free pass even for prior bookings. He told me to buy my kids epic passes to ensure they have a chance at a reservation. I said no. He said ok we should know more In a couple weeks. Keystone is know as a family ski resort so there has to be hundreds of other families that are planning on those passes this winter.
 

crgildart

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I get the general need to reduce the volume of people lining up places, but why single out the kids discount incentives? Families with kids will be spending a lot more on gear, food, lessons, rentals, pretty much everything. Is there something kid centric that resorts now want to avoid in the COVID world? I don't get it. Maybe it's that they can't do the ski wee little kid stuff and instructors can't ride lifts right next to the little kids.. all those logistical issues that the younger kids pose are now too challenging to not charge them for slope access?????
 

Philpug

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I called again today to see if the lady I talked to yesterday had the wrong information. The gentleman I talked to today confirmed what I was told yesterday. They are deciding what to do about kids ski free with the reservation system and are considering doing away with the free pass even for prior bookings. He told me to buy my kids epic passes to ensure they have a chance at a reservation. I said no. He said ok we should know more In a couple weeks. Keystone is know as a family ski resort so there has to be hundreds of other families that are planning on those passes this winter.
Operators are working with If/Then flowcharts on policies. With so may changes happening and having to change, I am not surprised that certain ones like the kids programs haven't been addressed yet. As mentioned earlier in this thread and confirmed by the second operator, it will be best to circle back in a few weeks. It sounds like you were trying to see if the women yesterday had her facts straight..and the most up to date flow chart V3.5.6.2C but it sound like she did and version 3.5.6.2D hasn't been released yet.
 

Ken_R

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Operators are working with If/Then flowcharts on policies. With so man changes happening and having to change, I am not surpisted that certain ones like the kids porgrams haven't been addressed yet. As mentioned earlin in this thread and confirmed by the secong operator, it will be best to circle back in a few weeks. It sounds like you were trying to see if the women yesterday had her facts straight..and the most up to date flow chart V3.5.6.2C but it sound like she did and version 3.5.6.2D hasn't been released yet.

From an operations standpoint the ski school and daycare services put the most people at risk of covid-19 other than the F&B services. They need to be addressed asap.
 

raytseng

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my take on this is this isn't about profit maximizing, its about keeping control of capacity and knowing and controlling as close to exactly how many people will be on the mtn each day and maintaining a clear priority to access

This kids ski free program is a side channel to access, and as its designed has no controls beforehand to know is this taking a slot or not, which throws a variable in all the capacity planning and how many people will be on the mountain. The whole blanket policy that every VR needs reservations seems to mirror that sentiment.

Perhaps after they nail the reservations system and see how much slack they have they can go back and carve out free tickets for lodge stay, but obviously they have to weight it in a list of priorities of who to give the slot too. If this kid gets a ticket thats 1 less slot for an adult passholder or a different advanced window buyer thst doesnt get the slot.

Its not about short term profits or how much revenue this person represents, its more about who should this slot go to; at this time it appears the positioning is that passholders are the highest status even if it means less revenue per skierday. If all passholders can't be satisfied they can't carve out for anybody else yet no matter how much money they show up with on the day of skiing.
 
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Alumacraft3

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I’m not sure how they are addressing ski school. We don’t need lessons so I haven’t paid attention to that area. I think this all stems from Vail implementing a reservation system for skiing. The kids with free passes have to count towards the daily limit so I think they are trying to get out of giving them away so more paying customers can ski. The thing that really bothers me is they offered it and are now thinking about taking it away after the fact. Also I know I’m paying for the passes in a round about way with resort fees and such so I sure as heck don’t want to have to pay for two more epic passes on top of the already high prices. When they came out with the reservation system the email specifically said they don’t anticipate reaching capacity on most days. I just don’t see why they can’t honor what they promised and have the kids get a reservation like everyone else. They can give the kids free ski passes priority for reserving their ski days just like the pass holders get.
 

raytseng

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I sympathize that this is a big mess, but its priority.
Full passholders are declared to have top priority, so first they need to at least wait until all passholder have bought their passes and claimed their 7 days of reservations.
Only after passholders truly got first dibs then the next priority group(s) may get a priority slice if they are sure they arent at the limit.

Since pass sales haven't ended nor the reservations systems opened up they can't know how many slots remain.

As far as the offering something and taking it away, everyone who thought they'd get unlimited access without reservations is in the same boat and thats why they gave the refund option to unwind the purchase (duedate today)

If you choose to go forward rather than unwinding that's accepting the new deal. Like the lawsuit about the northstar parking fees, you can unwind and get your money back, but you can't force them to comply and deliver the old deal. Those guys didnt go skiing and refuse to pay parking fees or try to claim their fees spent, they didnt use their passes at all.
 
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Alumacraft3

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The booking agent told me they just got word of this potential change yesterday. So I would assume they have been offering the kids ski free with lodging deal up until then. The reservation system was announced a couple weeks ago. It should have been figured out before now but they waited until a day before the pass deadline so most parents like us have already purchased our passes and now don’t have a lot of options besides spend more money.
 

raytseng

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Can you not request a refund of your epicpasses up through today? Theoretically for purchases before the reservation announcement, but given they changed the keystone deal, I think they will honor your adult epicpass refunds too given that argument too. So I think you can start over from scratch if you truly want to unwind it all.
 

dovski

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I can relate to your frustration on this and hope they do the right thing and honor the kids ski free promotion they actively advertised. In normal circumstances this would be a clear case of false advertising but with Covid it is not so clear cut given the extreme situation.

Personally after several poor customer service experiences with Vail resorts, that my family and several other families we ski with experienced, we decided to vote with our wallets and ski elsewhere for a couple seasons. Hopefully post COVID we can give them another try.
 

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