Vail Resorts Announces Plans for 2020/21 Ski and Snowboard Season with Comprehensive Focus on Safety

[raytseng]

Why would/should they have accomodated the request? I feel we've had this same discussion every so often.
I feel it is grossly unfair that a person who is better at the art of complaining gets a different result then the person who lacks that skill. A policy should be equally applied no matter how good someone is at complaining. I also feel the idea to shaming them on social media is either blackmail or petty depending on if your intention and expectation was to get restitution or to just extract a pound of flesh.

 

[Eric@ict]

The bottom line is that Vail/Epic could have done the right thing actually costing them nothing. They could have rolled my credits which are about $240 per each pass to the following season. This would insure that I would continue to buy their passes and be a somewhat happy camper. I will now state what they have done (or not done) and shop around them as much as I can in an attempt to avoid buying from them in the future. I do aknowledge that the Veterans Pass is a good deal for us but all of this just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I get it, but as a company they have to draw a line somewhere. They are in loss mitigation mode now. The suggestion of waiting until this all calms down a little and then readdressing makes since. It might not help, but you might be able to move it up the ladder for resolution.

FWIW, as a vet, they have always treated me and my family well and seeing all my brothers and sisters in arms on the slopes in the adaptive ski program makes me smile. They do value veterans.

All though, I don't think the status of the pass holder should make a difference in this case.

 

[fatbob]

Why would/should they have accomodated the request? I feel we've had this same discussion every so often.
I feel it is grossly unfair that a person who is better at the art of complaining gets a different result then the person who lacks that skill. A policy should be equally applied no matter how good someone is at complaining. I also feel the idea to shaming them on social media is either blackmail or petty depending on if your intention and expectation was to get restitution or to just extract a pound of flesh.

Businesses have created the rod for their own backs by being so poor at customer service and inhuman and lacking empathy that often the "shaming" route is the only way to go. I recently took over 8 hours cumulative of online chat to get my mother's broadband provider to actually dispatch a replacement router for the older one that had failed - she'd have given up and continued to be billed because it was all too upsetting to negotiate. All that to shave a buck on a $20 router that was more than being paid back each month. No amount of fake sincere "I am truly sorry I understand how frustrating this has been" from each successive numpty who picked up the file then asked the same questions again and again would make me recommend them to anyone ever.

Damn straight if I'd had an emotive "bullying cancer patient" type card to play I'd have been on their twitter or facebook to try to save me that 8 hours of hell.

 

[raytseng]

There's a difference between a valid complaint, versus trying to get a special exemption or accomodation.

 

[Wilhelmson]

Why would/should they have accomodated the request? I feel we've had this same discussion every so often.
I feel it is grossly unfair that a person who is better at the art of complaining gets a different result then the person who lacks that skill. A policy should be equally applied no matter how good someone is at complaining. I also feel the idea to shaming them on social media is either blackmail or petty depending on if your intention and expectation was to get restitution or to just extract a pound of flesh.

As if big companies don't hire teams of lawyers and lobbyists to get what they want. The you call out a regular customer's customer service issue as blackmail or petty. Lol

 

[Big J]

There's a difference between a valid complaint, versus trying to get a special exemption or accomodation.

I fail to see what my special exemption or accomodation request is. I paid Vail/Epic in order to spring ski at Whistler and they closed the season. Vail got paid even though I could not use the pass earlier due to medical reasons. All I am asking is that our credits be rolled to the next season as I need knee replacement and cannot ski this season. If we do not buy passes then, our money is gone.

 

[Big J]

Why would/should they have accomodated the request? I feel we've had this same discussion every so often.
I feel it is grossly unfair that a person who is better at the art of complaining gets a different result then the person who lacks that skill. A policy should be equally applied no matter how good someone is at complaining. I also feel the idea to shaming them on social media is either blackmail or petty depending on if your intention and expectation was to get restitution or to just extract a pound of flesh.

If you are saying that this pertains to me I have no idea where you come up with that. I am not trying to shame anyone.

 

[Big J]

Thanks for everyones input.

 

[raytseng]

If you are saying that this pertains to me I have no idea where you come up with that. I am not trying to shame anyone.

Nah its just my contratian devil's advocate response anticipating some other advice.

 

[David Chaus]

I fail to see what my special exemption or accomodation request is. I paid Vail/Epic in order to spring ski at Whistler and they closed the season. Vail got paid even though I could not use the pass earlier due to medical reasons. All I am asking is that our credits be rolled to the next season as I need knee replacement and cannot ski this season. If we do not buy passes then, our money is gone.

I'm sorry to hear of the situation with your knees and I hope your knee replacements go well and that you have a speedy recovery.

To be clear from a transactional standpoint, you paid Vail/Epic to have access to all their resorts, throughout the 19-20 season. They in fact did their part by operating said ski resorts as long as they could, and the only reason they offered a credit from 19-20 to 20-21 is due to the season being shortened by the pandemic. Would it be better if they hadn't offered the Covid credit at all for a 21-21 pass, for anyone?

As far as not being able to use the pass earlier due to medical reasons, IIRC your meniscus surgery was planned prior to your purchase of the pass. Please correct me if I'm incorrect. If so, you bought a pass knowing you wouldn't be able to use it for most of the season, and depending on your recovery at that time, you might not have been able to use at all. So it was always a risk. I don't see how that's Vail's responsibility. Nonetheless, it would be nice if they could roll over your credit to a 21-22 pass. Maybe they don't have a way to do that (yet).

In 2010, I had bought my season pass, then broke my leg on the first day of the season. Rode the toboggan ride of shame. Kudos to Ski Patrollers everywhere! Thanks for your patrolling.

However I broke it at Baker, without ever using it at Stevens, and Stevens did give me credit I was able to use the next season, which I appreciated. That was of course prior to Vail's purchase of Stevens.

FWIW I also missed out on a lot of skiing I had planned to do this last spring, including Whistler. I have also experienced buying a pass for my SO, who used it only 3 or 4 times due to a variety of unforeseen issues. Those are the breaks; when you buy a season pass you accept the possibility that you might not use it at all, or not as much as you'd planned.

 

[Seldomski]

I feel it is grossly unfair that a person who is better at the art of complaining gets a different result then the person who lacks that skill.

Haha welcome to America. This is why lawyers exist and why good ones are paid so much.

 

[ski otter 2]

On the other hand, with many small businesses, there is still room for human feeling, and people make allowances - part of good relations and neighborliness, simple altruism - based on a bit o' compassion and being reasonable, not some colder motives.

Some ski areas are similar, more "mom and pop" operations, out for the best for everyone, when possible - treat people like you would want to be treated.
A Basin, to some extent, and Loveland, also with human foibles, come to mind. (Have you seen A Basin's latest "no reservations" announcement on their website?)

(Often not so with some larger ski "organizations," fresh from a past of time-sharing and whatnot, whose convoluted contracts and practices for this coming season read like lawyereese - a headache, not just plain fun. Hope Vail, etc. too can get things more basic & spontaneous, as this season goes on. Dunno.

 

[4ster]

I feel it is grossly unfair that a person who is better at the art of complaining gets a different result then the person who lacks that skill.

I don’t know how artistic I am but this statement prompted me to resend my email to Ikon...

I currently have a 19/20 Ikon pass that I purchased specifically to ski in the spring of 2020 at Squalpine, after all they are as you say "The Spring Skiing Capitol". I spend the winter in Eden, UT with Snowbasin & Powder Mountain passes. If not for the Covid-19 pandemic & shelter in place orders I would have been in Tahoe late March for the Spring & Summer. As you can see from my account, I have only skied one (1) day on my Ikonpass at Brighton, UT. I wouldn't have even skied this early season day if not for the fact that my original pass had been lost in the mail. When I repeatedly called to try & get another one sent I was told that it would take 2 weeks or more. Not wanting to waste time going to a ticket office or risking not having a pass on a possible powder day, I decided to make the trek to Brighton to pick up my pass & take a few warm up runs on the limited terrain open.

I know these are trying times for all businesses & the reason I have waited to make contact. As a retired 40+ year skiing professional, I also understand the unique circumstances of the business. As I begin to see other resorts pushing out early season rates, announcing possible compensations for next season etc., I have heard nothing in these regards from Ikon?

My question is, will you be able to offer someone in my particular circumstance some type of refund, compensation or credit toward next years season pass?

I understand that there are risks when buying a pass ahead of time but there is really not much choice these days for someone like me who skis regularly. Even in an average or low snow year I am sure I would've been able to get at least 20 or 30 days this spring on my Ikonpass. I am hoping to be a loyal Ikonpass holder for many years to come!

Thanks in advance for your thoughtful reply,

EDIT:
BTW, I sent this to them earlier & never received more than a canned response basically saying I was SOL.

 

[tball]

Some ski areas are similar, more "mom and pop" operations, out for the best for everyone, when possible - treat people like you would want to be treated
A Basin, to some extent, and Loveland, also with human foibles, come to mind. (Have you seen A Basin's latest "no reservations" announcement on their website?)

Well, a human being at A-basin told me to pound sand. So did the boss.

A-basin is no Mom and Pop business. It's owned by a Canadian real estate developer with $9 billion of assets under management.

In 2019 Arapahoe Basin reported CA $39.3 million in revenue and $10.6 million in net income.

That is a damn good business. And one that should know better than to screw over it's best customers.

 

[ski otter 2]

A bit of reason - and reality. Thanks, @tball .

Yeah, the friend I ski with most is still mad at them too. Before last season started, he wanted a refund in full from them on his season pass when they suddenly announced after his purchase that they were partnering on a limited basis with Ikon. They had sold him his ticket under false pretenses, he felt, which maybe to some extent they had. (But they may have also just figured out late their deal with Ikon, not knowing if it would be successful until the last minute.)

They would only refund him his money when he bought an Ikon pass instead. (Which he probably would have done anyway, I gather.) And they promised to "pass him up the ladder" to talk to "higher ups" about it, and eventually, to Al himself; but he never got that call from Al, and gave up trying, he told me.

He ended up using that Ikon pass, seems like, mostly at Copper, but Covid cut that off too. (He has industry discounts on many ski passes, being in the business.) I think he ended up getting the most out of his Loveland pass, and his full Epic pass at Vail and Beaver Creek, where he can stay free with ski reps, most days.

Man, he is so skilled at ski tech and advice - skis, bindings and boots, and most all of what he does - he deserves those discounts.

 

[Bill Miles]

At least they are better at customer service than Microsoft.

IMHO, where the rubber will really meet the road, will be next season if people who bought passes with unlimited days do not receive them due to capacity restrictions, required reservations and/or inadequate reservation systems.

 

[Tony]

I'm trying to renew my wife's and my Tahoe Vail passes. No problem with applying her 44% renewal discount online, but unable to apply my 20% discount as I want to downgrade from Tahoe Local Pass I had last year to Tahoe Value Pass which my wife has and is the only Vail Tahoe Pass that has a Senior version that I now qualify for.

Since I could not apply my discount code online, I opened a case and their response was someone will get back to me in 6-8 weeks. I also went to season pass office at base of Heavenly gondola two days, but it may have closed on Labor Day. I've tried calling a few times and after a few minutes of selections, I eventually hear we are too busy, try again later.

Since I only have a week left before deadline for not losing perks, I may have to use discount code to renew my wife's pass and buy my Senior Tahoe Value Pass for full price and hope they eventually give me 20% off that I should get. But it seems like they should have people to answer phone for customers trying to spend money.

 

[Big J]

I'm sorry to hear of the situation with your knees and I hope your knee replacements go well and that you have a speedy recovery.

To be clear from a transactional standpoint, you paid Vail/Epic to have access to all their resorts, throughout the 19-20 season. They in fact did their part by operating said ski resorts as long as they could, and the only reason they offered a credit from 19-20 to 20-21 is due to the season being shortened by the pandemic. Would it be better if they hadn't offered the Covid credit at all for a 21-21 pass, for anyone?

As far as not being able to use the pass earlier due to medical reasons, IIRC your meniscus surgery was planned prior to your purchase of the pass. Please correct me if I'm incorrect. If so, you bought a pass knowing you wouldn't be able to use it for most of the season, and depending on your recovery at that time, you might not have been able to use at all. So it was always a risk. I don't see how that's Vail's responsibility. Nonetheless, it would be nice if they could roll over your credit to a 21-22 pass. Maybe they don't have a way to do that (yet).

In 2010, I had bought my season pass, then broke my leg on the first day of the season. Rode the toboggan ride of shame. Kudos to Ski Patrollers everywhere! Thanks for your patrolling.

However I broke it at Baker, without ever using it at Stevens, and Stevens did give me credit I was able to use the next season, which I appreciated. That was of course prior to Vail's purchase of Stevens.

FWIW I also missed out on a lot of skiing I had planned to do this last spring, including Whistler. I have also experienced buying a pass for my SO, who used it only 3 or 4 times due to a variety of unforeseen issues. Those are the breaks; when you buy a season pass you accept the possibility that you might not use it at all, or not as much as you'd planned.

I understand all of this and agree. All I am asking for is a rollover of the credit to the following year as I will be unable to ski this season.

 

[Eric@ict]

Well, a human being at A-basin told me to pound sand. So did the boss.

A-basin is no Mom and Pop business. It's owned by a Canadian real estate developer with $9 billion of assets under management.

In 2019 Arapahoe Basin reported CA $39.3 million in revenue and $10.6 million in net income.

That is a damn good business. And one that should know better than to screw over it's best customers.

I have to ask. What happened prior to you being told to pound sand?

 

[Wasatchman]

I don’t know how artistic I am but this statement prompted me to resend my email to Ikon...


EDIT:
BTW, I sent this to them earlier & never received more than a canned response basically saying I was SOL.

Yup. Ikon draws a hard line on their policy with no exceptions whatsoever. I know someone who used one day of the free end of season spring benefit in 2018/2019 when they bought a 2019/2020 pass. Didn't ski one day this past season. No credit for this season because they used 1 day at end of prior season on that pass. CSR said sorry, but we drew the line somewhere with policy and no exceptions. If you use one day of the pass, you get nothing. But I do remember reading your comments of Brighton opening and enjoying your commentary. Talk about taking one for the team. Sorry. I've been there myself.