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Vail Resorts Announces Plans for 2020/21 Ski and Snowboard Season with Comprehensive Focus on Safety

Eric@ict

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In terms of recruiting and retaining IT staff, I continue to laugh about Katz moving the company HQ to Broomfield from Avon.

So many geeks would jump at the chance to live and work in the mountains. While in Broomfield, VR has to compete for talent in a major tech hub that has large offices that include Google, Amazon, and Oracle. And they use MS crap. :rolleyes:

Ha, I found this fantastic quote from Katz when they moved to Broomfield: “It’s got some very nice mountain views,” Katz said Tuesday. :roflmao:

Its why my brother left VR, 18 years and lived in Dillon. Hated living on the front range.
 

raytseng

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The next deadline when the deal changes is Sept 17, as announced in the letter.

However, it is uncertain if the price will change, the letter implies mostly expiration of buddy/SWAF passes and pass credits.
 

marjoram_sage

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I was thinking about buying the unrestricted pass but since one can only have 7 days reservation and the black out days might be hard to reserve, I decided to go with the local version.

It would have been nice if you could get more days reserved with the unrestricted pass but that is not the case.
 
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Philpug

Philpug

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I was thinking about buying the unrestricted pass but since one can only have 7 days reservation and the black out days might be hard to reserve, I decided to go with the local version.

It would have been nice if you could get more days reserved with the unrestricted pass but that is not the case.
Black out days aren't what they used to be. More poeple don't buy the Unlimited Pass than do, that leaves the Black out days much mess crowded than they used to be..or you expect them to be.
 

Big J

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Here is the latest on the refunds or credits on the Epic Veterans Passes for my wife and myself. I had miniscus surgery and knew I could not ski until the spring. We purchased the passes as we usually do in order to be able to ski Whistler in the spring. I was able to ski one day at Stevens Pass which is our home resort. We then did a two day trip to Whistler and I was only able to ski one green run a day for two days. Vail then closed the resort. Epic/Vail offers us a 44% credit that we cannot use as I will not be able to ski this season. I was looking for a refund instead. After 5 tries to talk to someone over the past two weeks I finally got through after a 20 minute hold to Natasha a representative. I was informed that it is a credit only for a pass purchase for the 20-21 season and a refund is not available. I was told I cannot roll the credit forward a year even though I will not be able to ski as I require two total knee replacements. Basically I am out the money. I was Patrol and am an expert skier. It costs us the total dollar amount for two passes to ski 15000 vertical that I usually do in one day before lunch. They get an F for the lack of customer service that was also very rude. I will be buying passes again and will look as hard as I can to find an Alternative to the Epic Veterans Passes.
 
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dbostedo

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Here is the latest on the refunds or credits on the Epic Veterans Passes for my wife and myself. I had miniscus surgery and knew I could not ski until the spring. We purchased the passes as we usually do in order to be able to ski Whistler in the spring. I was able to ski one day at Stevens Pass which is our home resort. We then did a two day trip to Whistler and I was only able to ski one green run a day for two days. Vail then closed the resort. Epic/Vail offers us a 44% credit that we cannot use as I will not be able to ski this season. I was looking for a refund instead. After 5 tries to talk to someone over the past two weeks I finally got through after a 20 minute hold to Natasha a representative. I was informed that it is a credit only for a pass purchase for the 20-21 season and a refund is not available. I was told I cannot roll the credit forward a year even though I will not be able to ski as I require two total knee replacements. Basically I am out the money. I was Patrol and am an expert skier. It costs us the total dollar amount for two passes to ski 15000 vertical that I usually do in one day before lunch. They get an F for the lack of customer service that was also very rude. I will be buying passes again and will look as hard as I can to find an Alternative to the Epic Veterans Passes.
Can you use the credit for a 20/21 pass, then separately take advantage of the pass coverage included now with a 20/21 pass, to roll a 20/21 pass into a 21/22 credit?
 

Seldomski

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Can you use the credit for a 20/21 pass, then separately take advantage of the pass coverage included now with a 20/21 pass, to roll a 20/21 pass into a 21/22 credit?


You cannot choose to roll the money forward, something has to happen to prevent skiing for the refund to be made. I believe IKON is different in this - they allow you to defer to next season whereas EPIC seems to have the stance the pass is nonrefundable, unless something specific happens.

General stance is the pass is 'not refundable' and you can get credit for next year if you:
1) Cannot get the priority reservation days you want
2) Cannot ski due to resort closure (specifically due to COVID, not weather related). The refund amount depends on which resort you flagged and what days (all season, or a specific week) the resort was closed.
3) A "Qualifying Personal Event" happens. In which case you will get some refund, but amount is rated to $0 after skiing 7 or more days.
 

Big J

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You cannot choose to roll the money forward, something has to happen to prevent skiing for the refund to be made. I believe IKON is different in this - they allow you to defer to next season whereas EPIC seems to have the stance the pass is nonrefundable, unless something specific happens.

General stance is the pass is 'not refundable' and you can get credit for next year if you:
1) Cannot get the priority reservation days you want
2) Cannot ski due to resort closure (specifically due to COVID, not weather related). The refund amount depends on which resort you flagged and what days (all season, or a specific week) the resort was closed.
3) A "Qualifying Personal Event" happens. In which case you will get some refund, but amount is rated to $0 after skiing 7 or more days.
As I understad it this is correct.
 

dbostedo

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As I understad it this is correct.
I guess I was wondering if the knee surgery would be a qualifying event once you had the 20/21 pass - but I see that "existing injury" is listed as an exclusion.:(
 

raytseng

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I guess I was wondering if the knee surgery would be a qualifying event once you had the 20/21 pass - but I see that "existing injury" is listed as an exclusion.:(

I see where you were going with the potential loophole. The idea is to get a Pass with the credit, and then somehow cash it out using Insurance.
But right now, you don't need to use the Insurance to cash out, the new Reservation Policy announcement gives everyone the same escape hatch for a couple more days.

The problem is even if that were the case, the refund/insurance payout would still only be of the new money put in. The Passholder credit is technically not a "credit" but is a discount; it isn't Real money owed, like in the form of a formal gift card or actual store credit. That's why it can just disappear on Sept. 17, whereas real money credits can't expire like that. If you buy something with a coupon, and return the item, you only get your original money back, you don't get back money that the coupon represented.

On that same note on Deferrals, keep in mind both ikon/epic policies as written are also deferrals/refunds of purchase only, not privileges. So this too is deferrals/refunds on only your new purchase money you've put in. Nothing is said about carrying over discounts or people who deferred with individualized discounts. How they will structure discounts next year is not known, it's neither bad/good, it's just not written or announced.
 
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Seldomski

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The Epic pass documents do say the credit for this season, or some portion thereof, will carry over to next season IF you somehow get a pass refund. But it's complicated and also prorated. The only obvious game I see here is to buy the pass for 20/21 and then select priority reservation days that are already booked (ie try to reserve only major holiday weekends, or days adjacent to blackouts). This would be a way to 'choose' to defer the pass.

This is not guaranteed to work -- there may be way more reservations than passes if not many are buying this season. And you might *gasp* actually have the ability to access the lifts with your pass and thus be denied a refund. First world problems.

The epic terms need some sort of mobile game or simulator where you can put in different variables and calculate your refund amount in different scenarios. I imagine there's some flow chart they have generated internally to give to their staff... I think they must have consulted with some Vogons to generate the refund terms.
 

fatbob

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I'm sure you aren't bound by your reservations so you could probably keep rebooking them until you hit "unlucky" - yes of course I was wanting to ski 30 December at Vail and 31 December at Stevens and 1 Jan at Stowe. But it's a lot of faff - maybe just suck it up - it's only half a loss anyway - your wife isn't restricted from skiing next season but I sense you are saying she wouldn't choose to do so alone/with buddies.

But they've all been smart/mean about only letting you roll what you now spend into 21/22 so the generosity on the discounts/credit isn't real for all. Winners and losers - there will be some who got hurt and couldn't ski at all last season but were uninsured on the pass more than happy with the credit they got.
 
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raytseng

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The Epic pass documents do say the credit for this season, or some portion thereof, will carry over to next season IF you somehow get a pass refund. But it's complicated and also prorated. The only obvious game I see here is to buy the pass for 20/21 and then select priority reservation days that are already booked (ie try to reserve only major holiday weekends, or days adjacent to blackouts). This would be a way to 'choose' to defer the pass.

This is not guaranteed to work -- there may be way more reservations than passes if not many are buying this season. And you might *gasp* actually have the ability to access the lifts with your pass and thus be denied a refund. First world problems.

The epic terms need some sort of mobile game or simulator where you can put in different variables and calculate your refund amount in different scenarios. I imagine there's some flow chart they have generated internally to give to their staff... I think they must have consulted with some Vogons to generate the refund terms.
Good find, you are absolutely correct. Found the fine print. Similar wordage for the other categories of covered events.

3. Credit Rollover. If you used your 2019/2020 Credit towards the purchase of a 2020/2021 Season Pass and you are eligible for a Personal Event Refund, you may be eligible to apply all or a portion of the 2019/2020 Credit towards the purchase of an equal or greater value pass for the 2021/2022 ski and ride season (the “Personal Event Credit Rollover”). The amount of your Personal Event Credit Rollover will equal your Personal Event Refund Percentage multiplied by the amount of your 2019/2020 Credit actually applied to your 2020/2021 Season Pass. You can only redeem your Credit Rollover towards the purchase of a single Season Pass for the 2021/2022 season. You cannot redeem any portion of your Credit Rollover for cash. If the Season Pass you purchase for the 2021/2022 season costs less than your Credit Rollover, the remaining portion of the Credit Rollover will be forfeited. Your Credit Rollover is non-transferrable. You must use your Credit Rollover on or before September 6, 2021 or it will expire and be forfeited.

If your surgery was already preexisting before purchase, you'll need a different qualifying reasons and there are some timing windows. I looked over the covered reasons, the options that seem most easily within your control is to either adopt a child, get pregnant, or die; then you'll be able to rollover the 2020-2021 pass credits and stick it to vail.
 

tball

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Here is the latest on the refunds or credits on the Epic Veterans Passes for my wife and myself. I had miniscus surgery and knew I could not ski until the spring. We purchased the passes as we usually do in order to be able to ski Whistler in the spring. I was able to ski one day at Stevens Pass which is our home resort. We then did a two day trip to Whistler and I was only able to ski one green run a day for two days. Vail then closed the resort. Epic/Vail offers us a 44% credit that we cannot use as I will not be able to ski this season. I was looking for a refund instead. After 5 tries to talk to someone over the past two weeks I finally got through after a 20 minute hold to Natasha a representative. I was informed that it is a credit only for a pass purchase for the 20-21 season and a refund is not available. I was told I cannot roll the credit forward a year even though I will not be able to ski as I require two total knee replacements. Basically I am out the money. I was Patrol and am an expert skier. It costs us the total dollar amount for two passes to ski 15000 vertical that I usually do in one day before lunch. They get an F for the lack of customer service that was also very rude. I will be buying passes again and will look as hard as I can to find an Alternative to the Epic Veterans Passes.
That's really crappy of Vail, and to a veteran no less. Thank you for your service.

I there still a class action lawsuit going? Or, I bet you could get substantial compensation from a small claims case. I'm just a few minutes away from both the VR HQ and Broomfield County courts if you want me to file/serve some papers on an afternoon bike ride. There's a nice loop that goes by both. :mtbike:
 

Big J

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I see where you were going with the potential loophole. The idea is to get a Pass with the credit, and then somehow cash it out using Insurance.
But right now, you don't need to use the Insurance to cash out, the new Reservation Policy announcement gives everyone the same escape hatch for a couple more days.

The problem is even if that were the case, the refund/insurance payout would still only be of the new money put in. The Passholder credit is technically not a "credit" but is a discount; it isn't Real money owed, like in the form of a formal gift card or actual store credit. That's why it can just disappear on Sept. 17, whereas real money credits can't expire like that. If you buy something with a coupon, and return the item, you only get your original money back, you don't get back money that the coupon represented.

On that same note on Deferrals, keep in mind both ikon/epic policies as written are also deferrals/refunds of purchase only, not privileges. So this too is deferrals/refunds on only your new purchase money you've put in. Nothing is said about carrying over discounts or people who deferred with individualized discounts. How they will structure discounts next year is not known, it's neither bad/good, it's just not written or announced.
100% correct
 

Big J

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The bottom line is that Vail/Epic could have done the right thing actually costing them nothing. They could have rolled my credits which are about $240 per each pass to the following season. This would insure that I would continue to buy their passes and be a somewhat happy camper. I will now state what they have done (or not done) and shop around them as much as I can in an attempt to avoid buying from them in the future. I do aknowledge that the Veterans Pass is a good deal for us but all of this just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
 

Big J

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That's really crappy of Vail, and to a veteran no less. Thank you for your service.

I there still a class action lawsuit going? Or, I bet you could get substantial compensation from a small claims case. I'm just a few minutes away from both the VR HQ and Broomfield County courts if you want me to file/serve some papers on an afternoon bike ride. There's a nice loop that goes by both. :mtbike:
The easiest thing for us to do is to just let it go and be out the money. Not worth the hassle of trying to get something back.
 

Seldomski

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The easiest thing for us to do is to just let it go and be out the money. Not worth the hassle of trying to get something back.

Vail seems to discourage interaction with actual humans in their customer relations, like many other companies. Your situation is unfortunate, but I bet you are not alone. Their published policies suggest anyone planning to take this season off for medical/personal/other reasons forfeits the credit.

My guess is they don't allow pushing the credit to '21/22 since too many would take the offer. I would, and I don't have any medical reason preventing me from skiing (other than 'fear of COVID'). Vetting all those applying for this had 'legitimate reasons' would likely be a huge burden. I admit the credit is certainly a factor in my decision regarding purchase of a pass for this coming season.

In any case, you can try sending them an email and publishing the response to their facebook/twitter page if they continue to be unsympathetic. They already said no, so I don't think you have anything to lose.

[email protected]
 

Wilhelmson

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The bottom line is that Vail/Epic could have done the right thing actually costing them nothing. They could have rolled my credits which are about $240 per each pass to the following season. This would insure that I would continue to buy their passes and be a somewhat happy camper. I will now state what they have done (or not done) and shop around them as much as I can in an attempt to avoid buying from them in the future. I do aknowledge that the Veterans Pass is a good deal for us but all of this just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

In prior years they probably would have accommodated your request. They must be so inundated with customer service it is difficult to provide individual attention.

I would just give it some time and check in with them in the spring.
 

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