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CalG

Out on the slopes
Pass Pulled
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Not that it is relavent to this topic, but isn't interesting that a "local" just buys a pass.

Where as, a non local "decides" which pass to purchase.

Pretty much sums up the difference. Ever seen a "local" who didn't have a pass to the area they lived in?
 

Wasatchman

over the hill
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Wasatch and NZ
Not that it is relavent to this topic, but isn't interesting that a "local" just buys a pass.

Where as, a non local "decides" which pass to purchase.

Pretty much sums up the difference. Ever seen a "local" who didn't have a pass to the area they lived in?
Sort of. Although I know people in Park City who would rather drive an hour than go to PCMR/Deer Valley. And those that are lucky to live near multiple resorts, they still have to decide between that. But yeah, interesting observation.
 

fatbob

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In principle I can see why it might make some sense to give some perks to locals e.g. in Disney it makes sense to keep a park busy at slack times of the year and as a viral tool to ensure that when they have out if town visitors locals aren't dissuaded from taking their guests there because who wants to be ripped off like a tourist in your own town.

But ski towns in N America are kinda different - how many locals are actually from multigenerational families that have always lived there as farmers, miners, loggers etc since before the ski hills existed? And how many are incomers attracted by the skiing and other recreational activities? I'd bet the latter vastly outnumber the former. Now as the ski industry has thrived I bet non skier incomers are attracted in to work hospitality or construction jobs - thinking hispanic populations of the Roaring Fork or Eagle County for example. It totally makes sense to try to lock those families into skiing too.

Guess I'm really saying if you're a local try not to act too much like a whiney douchebag. You're probably just a "slow moving tourist" in generational timescales. And if you threw in with a property purchase attached to a particular ski hill then you made your bed there to tie part of your life to the corporate forces around skiing.
 

KevinF

Gathermeister-New England
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Does Okemo/Stowe have onsite bootfitters? Asking because I wonder if there were any changes once VR took over? My bootfitter is at Mount Snow and I will go wherever he goes, if he goes but hope VR let's the master stay and doesn't give him any grief.

What do you call "on site"? Like, "walk out the door and into the snow" type of thing? No.

"The" guy at Okemo (at The Boot Pro) is at the base of the access road. Stowe has at least two bootfitters in the "area" that inspire religious devotion.
 

Erik Timmerman

So much better than a pro
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6,302
Not that it is relavent to this topic, but isn't interesting that a "local" just buys a pass.

Where as, a non local "decides" which pass to purchase.

Pretty much sums up the difference. Ever seen a "local" who didn't have a pass to the area they lived in?

Does Burlington count as local to Stowe? I'd say it does. UVM counts. There are a couple hundred thousand people there. They can decide which pass to get between SB, Stowe, Smuggs and Jay. It makes a huge difference if the $1800 pass suddenly becomes a $800 pass or even less for students. Not to mention $100 for military or $300 for veterans or whatever. The mountain hasn't gotten any bigger.
 

Asnis

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The premise is definitely on the assumption that locals offer a more stable revenue base. Otherwise, then no, I really couldn't come up with much of a business case for not just completely catering to high dollar tourists.

Intuitively locals would seem to be more stable. I would still think more locals would buy a pass in a recession than tourists, as they don't have the incremental costs of travel, lodging, etc. Also, tourists are not obligated to come after buying a pass. At that point, the pass is a sunk cost and hence may very well opt to save on the additional costs that would be entailed by travel, etc. and not come. That would not be the case for locals. In a bad snow year, less tourists come. Locals will still show up (albeit less often than they otherwise might) and while they might on average spend less at the resort than tourists, they still spend money. So I have a hard time believing locals are not a more stable revenue base for a resort, but if that premise is wrong, then if I'm running the resort I'm much more about prioritizing the tourists and the locals just have to suck it up and take what they get :) That is except @fatbob who doesn't spend enough money- Just kidding!!

Interestingly, it's not all that uncommon for places to place some importance on locals, even giving special perks. Heck, even Disneyland gives Southern Cal residents access to purchase a special pass. I could go on and on of instances of notable tourist destinations that still offer something for locals including discounts. Can anyone think if there is a business case for that, or is it just being altruistic to those entitled locals?


I’m by no means an expert on the economics of ski resorts here. But what I see here is that the success of ski resorts is entirely driven by tourists. There just aren’t the numbers of “locals” to support a thriving resort. Sure, they can be fun, independently owned resorts, manage to employ their workers. But that probably isn’t sustainable in today’s economy. To make real money, these resorts need visitors from population centers. No more evident than VR acquiring the resorts closest to the major east coast population hubs. Get people in NYC, DC Metro, Boston to buy a season pass for their local mountain that also locks them into a selection of resorts if and when they travel. I see similarities to this and the realignment of conferences in college sports. Why did the Big Ten take on MD and Rutgers.....access to population centers, TV sets, and television $$$. VR is looking big picture at how do we get the most # of people to travel to our resorts. The pricing on their pass just has to find that happy spot where it’s not too much of a deal for locals that ski multiple days/week, and not too high for the traveler that may get 1 or 2 trips in a season.
 

Coach13

Making fresh tracks
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Does Burlington count as local to Stowe? I'd say it does. UVM counts. There are a couple hundred thousand people there. They can decide which pass to get between SB, Stowe, Smuggs and Jay. It makes a huge difference if the $1800 pass suddenly becomes a $800 pass or even less for students. Not to mention $100 for military or $300 for veterans or whatever. The mountain hasn't gotten any bigger.

I think the military pass Epic offers has been a huge seller. In the DC area there is an enormous presence of active and retired military folks. Pretty much every one of those folks I know that ski purchase that pass. And of course until the Peak purchase their were no mountains close by that accepted that pass. I expect sales of the Epic Military pass to grow even more with the Peak purchase. Same with the full and local Epic passes.

Btw-whether we consider Burlington local to Stowe or not, the people that live up there do!
 

fatbob

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I think the military pass Epic offers has been a huge seller. In the DC area there is an enormous presence of active and retired military folks. Pretty much every one of those folks I know that ski purchase that pass. And of course until the Peak purchase their were no mountains close by that accepted that pass. I expect sales of the Epic Military pass to grow even more with the Peak purchase. Same with the full and local Epic passes.

Hmm that's an interesting angle - VR will be datamining the crap out of the Military pass. So its not inconceivable the price will rise if it starts delivering poor revenue per visitor stats. Patriotism < Profit.
 

Coach13

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Hmm that's an interesting angle - VR will be datamining the crap out of the Military pass. So its not inconceivable the price will rise if it starts delivering poor revenue per visitor stats. Patriotism < Profit.

Could be, but at the current price of $129, they are pretty much giving it away. Even if the price doubled (and it won’t) it would be a great deal especially to those local to a VR mountain.
 

fatbob

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Could be, but at the current price of $129, they are pretty much giving it away. Even if the price doubled (and it won’t) it would be a great deal especially to those local to a VR mountain.

And it might still be a net win for them because if a huge population of vets buys it on the basis of "what the heck it's less than the price of a day ticket" and only uses it a couple of days then that's a lot of revenue for not much consumption of resource. But in areas of high military density like you suggest what if the nearest resorts get swamped by effectively "free" users?
 

Coach13

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But in areas of high military density like you suggest what if the nearest resorts get swamped by effectively "free" users?

I guess it’s a possibility but the DC skiing crowd are mostly fair weather weekend skiers imo, and our local resorts are already swamped on weekend days. I think this could actually help the resorts as they are basically empty during the weekdays with some traffic picking up in the evenings. This may encourage the retired vets to frequent the resorts on these normal midweek dry times.

I guess I could be wrong but in an industry that’s said to be in somewhat of a decline, I think incentives to encourage participation is a good thing.
 

L&AirC

PSIA Instructor and USSA Coach
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When the purchase was first announced I looked up the Epic military retiree pass. Has me questioning whether I'm going to coach this season or just ski all over New England. The down side would be not getting some of the staff benefits Vail offers but there are workarounds.

For those that qualify, the customer service rep at the retiree # said historically the price increases around labor day, and like is stated in their small print, the plan is to include Peak Resorts in it as long as the deal goes through in time.

Adding this to my list of first world problems.
 

LiquidFeet

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My situation is sorta like yours, @L&AirC, My first world problem is to either buy the Epic Pass before prices go up so I can ski one of their Peak purchases (Wildcat) frequently, or hope letters from my employer Bretton Woods will still get me a discount there. I'm not finding any definitive answer to whether Vail honors "letters." I don't think I'll know the answer by Labor Day.

Clearly, it will cost me more this season compared to last to ski Wildcat on my days off if I end up buying that pass.
 
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surfsnowgirl

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I don't think Vail honors letters as one of the guys my SO works with at Bromley went to Okemo with a letter and they wouldn't give him a deal. That's 2 people we know and both were at Okemo. VR will get what they want and that is forcing people to buy the epic pass.
 

zag

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My situation is sorta like yours, @L&AirC hope letters from my employer Bretton Woods will still get me a discount there. I'm not finding any definitive answer to whether Vail honors "letters."

Vail is not known for being very welcoming to visiting instructors with discounts from non VR resorts, that's anecdotal from multiple psia friends who go CO.

My nephew ski bummed in CO 2 years back and Vail resorts were the only CO mountain that did not participate in the CO wide employee pass program. It's possible that the east coast resorts will be allowed some autonomy in guest letters, but you would be taking a risk to do so.
 

Doug Briggs

"Douche Bag Local"
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In CO, VR is not a member of Colorado Ski Country (the CO ski areas association) thus doesn't participate in the Real Deal. The Real Deal is how members of CSC obtain discounts/free skiing with other member areas.
 

L&AirC

PSIA Instructor and USSA Coach
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My situation is sorta like yours, @L&AirC, My first world problem is to either buy the Epic Pass before prices go up so I can ski one of their Peak purchases (Wildcat) frequently, or hope letters from my employer Bretton Woods will still get me a discount there. I'm not finding any definitive answer to whether Vail honors "letters." I don't think I'll know the answer by Labor Day.

Clearly, it will cost me more this season compared to last to ski Wildcat on my days off if I end up buying that pass.

Have you considered working at WC or Attitash instead of or in addition to Brettonwoods? Maybe that is the way for you to resolve this?
 

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