Vail pass sales up 15% for 2019/2020 ski season

[Bill Talbot]

As a VR passholder that enjoys skiing Breckenridge, I have to ask: Why?

They have begun shredding New England. First Stowe, then Okemo and moving on to Mt Snow.
Sometimes paying a bit more costs far less in the long run. It's the skiing equivalent of Home Depot, Walmart and dozens more chain retailers that have killed off locally owed businesses in communities everywhere. It stinks...

 

[cantunamunch]

The acquisition was announced on July 22.

For completeness' sake, I'll note that protests and petitions went out as early as March 13: https://www.facebook.com/thepeakpass/?__tn__=HHH-R ; the Sackler connection was made unignorably public in the first two weeks of May.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/busines...rsy-vermont/kkKmJr2iAS5elYB91f2ooL/story.html

 

[Coach13]

As a VR passholder that enjoys skiing Breckenridge, I have to ask: Why?

Same old anti-Vail BS. Funny thing is many of these folks have never skied a Vail Resort, I somewhat get the local skier viewpoint when their local resorts get purchased by VR due to the changes that the locals see firsthand. That said, it’s likely an indication of those individual resorts poor overall financial health that makes those resorts available to VR in the 1st place, imo. We act here like VR comes into town and buys these resorts at gun point or makes the local owner an offer that they can’t refuse. I can insure you that neither of these scenarios is occurring with these purchases.

 

[Jim Kenney]

Front page of Wash Post today:
Some members of Sackler family profit from sale of ski resorts in regions hit hard by opioids
The owners of Purdue Pharma, the firm widely blamed for fueling America’s opioid crisis, will reap about $60 million from the sale of 17 ski areas in the Northeast and Midwest, according to financial filings.

• By Christopher Rowland

 

[Mark Hanan]

In June I started looking into a trip to Vail for 10 days in March. I've skied there a few times, but not in the past 10 years. I noticed that the Epic Local pass at $699 included 10 days at Vail and thought it was a good deal - as I typically also ski Stowe for a weekend or two during the season. The addition of the Peak resorts made my decision a no brainer as I also ski Hunter a few days a year. The Epic Local pass - for me - is a bargain.

 

[TonyPlush]

I always thought Vail only counted their Epic Pass or Local Pass as "pass sales."

Then a friend invited me to ski Park City this year, and I realized even though I'd only be skiing Vail resorts for 3 days all season, I'd become an "Epic Pass Holder" aka the buyer of a 3-Day Pass, which is really nothing more than an advanced ticket purchase.

The skeptic in me thinks Vail does this so they can grab Wall Street's attention with a headline that sounds like they've increased "season pass holders" and "repeat customers" by 15% year over year. Then you dig into the details and it turns out these "pass holders" might have only committed to 1 total ski day all season. Makes me chuckle.

 

[TonyPlush]

My only problem with Vail owned resorts is the crowds they bring. I blame that less on Vail and more on the sheeple who listen to marketing noise without any critical thought.

If you can navigate around $14 a slice pizzas, on the whole, Vail seem to have made skiing more affordable for the 10+ day a year skier while improving mountain infrastructure.

This coming from a guy who hasn't skied a Vail-owned resort in the past 4 seasons. Epic crowds and Epic lift lines make the Vail ski experience terrible for me, and I'd rather spend my limited ski days elsewhere. But what can Vail do about their product being too popular? Raise prices? Seems like they're trying that...

 

[Doug Briggs]

Front page of Wash Post today:
Some members of Sackler family profit from sale of ski resorts in regions hit hard by opioids
The owners of Purdue Pharma, the firm widely blamed for fueling America’s opioid crisis, will reap about $60 million from the sale of 17 ski areas in the Northeast and Midwest, according to financial filings.

• By Christopher Rowland

Well you have a choice. They benefit from the sale and are out OR they benefit from continuing to operate the business. In either case you are dealing with the devil. Right?

 

[Core2]

Go ski Monarch and Wolf Creek. Ski James Coleman's resorts. Vail Resorts has priced out the middle class, I'm done with them and have been for a long time.

 

[Ski&ride]

No one is attributing the bump in sales to being the year after a great snow year?

I’d say the introduction of Epic Day pass has a lot more to do with the “increase”.

Basically, people who had otherwise buy day pass (regardless with or without discount) are now buying them in advance.

I bet Vail count these advance purchase into the “Epic pass” bucket.

 

[Doug Briggs]

They have begun shredding New England. First Stowe, then Okemo and moving on to Mt Snow.
Sometimes paying a bit more costs far less in the long run. It's the skiing equivalent of Home Depot, Walmart and dozens more chain retailers that have killed off locally owed businesses in communities everywhere. It stinks...

Define 'shredding'.

VR is buying successful properties and as is the case with the mega passes, probably bringing in more visitors. While VR is only buying going concerns, I think they are strengthening the industry. They are getting more people into skiing. You can't have it both ways: successful ski areas and small number of skiers (crowds). If you don't bring people to the game, the game will die.

A-Basin and Loveland have survived in spite of VR. I appreciate that A-Basin was on Vail pass options, but apart from crowding which will likely/possibly continue with IKON, I don't see VR as being a ski resort killer.

The locally owned business here in Summit County benefit greatly from VR. Not so much from Lowes and Walmart, though, so I think the comparison of VR to Home Depot and other chain retailers is not germane.

 

[Doug Briggs]

Go ski Monarch and Wolf Creek. Ski James Coleman's resorts. Vail Resorts has priced out the middle class, I'm done with them and have been for a long time.

For 'window' prices, sure they've priced out the middle class, but as has been mentioned, no one has to pay the 'window' price.

The Epic Local Pass is a great deal for me. At the same time I was paying $500 or so for most of Summit County, Aspenites were paying $2000 for their 4 areas. Kind of apples and oranges, but Breck could have charged well over $1000 for just Breck.

IIRC, passes in New England have been pretty pricey. I won't quote figures, but New Englanders could support my argument that you could pay well north of $500 for a single NE ski area pass.

I'm extremely grateful for the exceptional value I get from my Epic pass. Note Bene: I ski all week long and deal with the crowds on the weekends if the conditions merit. Most of the time they do and the terrain I enjoy isn't that crowded anyway. Suffice it to say, I usually go home tired, not perturbed.

 

[TonyPlush]

For 'window' prices, sure they've priced out the middle class, but as has been mentioned, no one has to pay the 'window' price.

The Epic Local Pass is a great deal for me. At the same time I was paying $500 or so for most of Summit County, Aspenites were paying $2000 for their 4 areas. Kind of apples and oranges, but Breck could have charged well over $1000 for just Breck.

IIRC, passes in New England have been pretty pricey. I won't quote figures, but New Englanders could support my argument that you could pay well north of $500 for a single NE ski area pass.

I'm extremely grateful for the exceptional value I get from my Epic pass. Note Bene: I ski all week long and deal with the crowds on the weekends if the conditions merit. Most of the time they do and the terrain I enjoy isn't that crowded anyway. Suffice it to say, I usually go home tired, not perturbed.

This.

Another thing I was surprised to learn in my Park City trip. Even my wife, who's as "casual" as a casual skier gets, can buy a one day Epic Day Pass starting at $109 a day to Park City. (Or even Beaver Creek or Vail or any other "unaffordable" mountains) And that price could drop all the way down to about $7 a day depending on which pass she buys and how often she skis.

Personally, I no longer ski Vail mountains. But it has nothing to do with their pass. It's their crowds - which is ironically is actually a good sign for our sport.

 

[dbostedo]

I always thought Vail only counted their Epic Pass or Local Pass as "pass sales."

Then a friend invited me to ski Park City this year, and I realized even though I'd only be skiing Vail resorts for 3 days all season, I'd become an "Epic Pass Holder" aka the buyer of a 3-Day Pass, which is really nothing more than an advanced ticket purchase.

The skeptic in me thinks Vail does this so they can grab Wall Street's attention with a headline that sounds like they've increased "season pass holders" and "repeat customers" by 15% year over year. Then you dig into the details and it turns out these "pass holders" might have only committed to 1 total ski day all season. Makes me chuckle.

Sure, but they've been doing that for several years now so it's baked in already I think. Have they inroduced any new pass products in the last year or 2?

And what matters more isn't actual pass sales, it's whether or not Vail meets their projections (on number of sales, and more importantly all the salients behind it - revenue, cash flow, profit, etc.). Because based on the projections, the stock price has already moved, and will move again up or down based on the actual results against the projections.

 

[PinnacleJim]

IIRC, passes in New England have been pretty pricey. I won't quote figures, but New Englanders could support my argument that you could pay well north of $500 for a single NE ski area pass.

New England is much more balanced than the west with regard to season pass prices and day ticket walk-up rates. An adult pass for Killington is about $1000 and a day ticket is about $120. And there are lots of options to get tickets for less than the walk-up rate. Sugarbush is similar.

However the addition of Peak Resorts to the Epic pass may change things. Makes the IKON less attractive to eastern skiers. Will be interesting to see how they respond.

 

[Tricia]

However the addition of Peak Resorts to the Epic pass may change things. Makes the IKON less attractive to eastern skiers. Will be interesting to see how they respond.

 

[Mark Hanan]

New England is much more balanced than the west with regard to season pass prices and day ticket walk-up rates. An adult pass for Killington is about $1000 and a day ticket is about $120. And there are lots of options to get tickets for less than the walk-up rate. Sugarbush is similar.

However the addition of Peak Resorts to the Epic pass may change things. Makes the IKON less attractive to eastern skiers. Will be interesting to see how they respond.

The Ikon Base Pass and Epic Local are similarly priced. However, you get much more out of the Epic Local in the East. The Ikon Base limits you to 5 days of skiing per resort and is holiday restricted. The Epic Local is holiday restricted at Stowe (with no limit on visits) and includes other resorts with no restrictions.

My weekend trips were typically to Killington which is a 4.5 hour drive. I'll now be skiing Stowe instead - a longer drive but better on the budget (as I purchased an Epic Local). (My last season pass before this year was at Killington in 1986).

 

[TexasStout]

In June I started looking into a trip to Vail for 10 days in March. I've skied there a few times, but not in the past 10 years. I noticed that the Epic Local pass at $699 included 10 days at Vail and thought it was a good deal - as I typically also ski Stowe for a weekend or two during the season. The addition of the Peak resorts made my decision a no brainer as I also ski Hunter a few days a year. The Epic Local pass - for me - is a bargain.

Are you bringing the kids? Most of March being crowded at the CO destination resorts due to Spring Break.

 

[Ken_R]

Quite possible that has helped. A lot of people on the mountain have told me that a bad snow year does have an impact the following year, so a good snow year would presumably help for this ski season. The phenomenon reportedly hurt Vail last year.

Yep. Ive seen it happen time and time again here in Colorado. Great snow year prior result in increased bookings the next season but mostly for stays during the Holiday Season and peak weekends when booking well in advanced is basically a requirement. Last year I talked to a lot of folks that were here on spur of the moment trips because the conditions were so good (and well hyped in the media). It was pretty crowded all season long everywhere.

 

[Bill Talbot]

Define 'shredding'.

VR is buying successful properties and as is the case with the mega passes, probably bringing in more visitors. While VR is only buying going concerns, I think they are strengthening the industry. They are getting more people into skiing. You can't have it both ways: successful ski areas and small number of skiers (crowds). If you don't bring people to the game, the game will die.

A-Basin and Loveland have survived in spite of VR. I appreciate that A-Basin was on Vail pass options, but apart from crowding which will likely/possibly continue with IKON, I don't see VR as being a ski resort killer.

The locally owned business here in Summit County benefit greatly from VR. Not so much from Lowes and Walmart, though, so I think the comparison of VR to Home Depot and other chain retailers is not germane.

I don't buy the 'must bring new people into skiing' line. In the Northeast it's generally too crowded to enjoy skiing on the weekend. I'm fortunate to ski week days but nothing I have seen or heard of first hand from Stowe or Okemo is good news regarding the VRI takeover.