Colorado Vail and Beaver Creek hit $219 window ticket price

[Coach13]

Meh - that's one evening of a la carte sushi in Adams Morgan.

We had sushi everywhere in Western MD where I grew up. We just called it bait!

 

[cantunamunch]

We had sushi everywhere in Western MD where I grew up. We just called it bait!

Yeh, 'cept y'all forgot to call the nettles "country wasabi" and lost out on millenial profits.

 

[Crank]

Oil money!

 

[Sibhusky]

For friends and family discount do you mean the "do our marketing for us and drag someone else along on the promise of a material discount then watch their gratitude turn to hatred as they realise they aren't even saving the price of an overpriced lodge burger" discount?

Here adult passholders get 4 vouchers to buy tickets for $53. As a senior I only get 2. I then nag my friends for more so my daughter can ski. That $53 beats out normal online pricing and Costco pricing. But it's no good during holidays. Frequent Skier cardholders will pay $54 but the card costs $50. So she saves a minimum of $50 if she's here for Christmas. Now there was a one day online sale for less, but then your dates are locked in.

 

[Rudi Riet]

I said this over on the Facebook post for this thread: if not for the fact that I work in the ski industry, I wouldn’t be able to afford to ski. And that’s just sad. I’m sad for those who hit financial barriers and are forced to abandon the sport or are blocked from ever entering it at all. There is a basic lack of equity access within the ski industry, and it's only getting worse to these eyes.

And that's the rub. Yes, the Epic/Ikon/Mountain Collective (and Peak before VR bought them) passes are a good deal if you have the financial means to buy them. Sure, if you plan ahead and buy early, they are cheaper, but it's still a big ask for individuals who are of limited means. And for families? It's a big outlay. Yes, there are cheaper options (e.g. Epic Local or Epic Military), but not everybody wants these or qualifies for them due to various and sundry restrictions.

I can speak to my own situation most closely: currently underemployed, and working freelance gigs has no guaranteed income level. Before my current state, I was working for a startup, and before then in the non-profit sector - neither of which meant I was earning big bucks. During ski season, I'm earning some extra money (though not a ton as alpine race coaching is not a vocation that pays well, especially in the Mid-Atlantic), though it doesn't make up for the fact that the cost of living in a major city is steep and the extra expenditure of skiing (commuting, passes, lodging, et al) adds up.

But let's face it: for the average person alpine skiing has become a sport for those with means and disposable income. We are outliers here at PugSki: we plan ahead, we look for the deals and ways to save money. But even with that, for those who don't have a way (or two, or three) to save and can't afford one of the big passes, the sport is extremely segmented. Local areas are available and somewhat affordable, but when one aspires to ski a bigger mountain (or simply outgrows the fun of their local hill), there's a glass ceiling for those who don't have the means.

As I said earlier: if not for the fact that I work in the industry, I wouldn't be able to afford to ski - full stop. Even if I were living deep in ski country, it would still be a tough equation to justify. And I can only imagine what it's like for those who would love to get into the sport but, when faced with all the costs involved, are unable to start (or continue) because it's a lot of money to spend. The question of equity access to alpine skiing is one that needs to be addressed, especially with the consolidation of so many resorts into a few big players.

Pay the essential bills or go for a week-long trip at a big resort (or even a local feeder resort)? Many will choose to keep a roof overhead, the electricity on, and the pantry stocked.

(Of note: I face similar issues in the bicycling industry, where equity access should be simple but isn't due to myriad issues, including economics, culture, and other factors. It's a tough nut to crack, whether skiing or bicycling.)

 

[Josh Matta]

While I think the day tickets are absurd I think the main thing people should know is that they truly do not want you to buy them. I feel the season passes are not actually that expensive though. Like if I suddenly quit ski teaching I would easily buy an Epic, Ikon or Jay pass and not think twice about it. My biggest loss would be cheap gear and my primo locker spot and missing teaching.

 

[David Chaus]

I agree with @Josh Matta about day tickets, it seems the resorts would rather have consistent and predictable income with a model that encourages annual renewals, rather than having (overpriced) ticket sales that are more volatile and sensitive to variations in weather.

 

[EricG]

I might be an outlier, but I dont think season pass pricing is all that expensive. Day tickets are fine for someone that goes 1-2x a year & that is what day tickets were designed for. My kids are in a Saturday & Sunday season long program and my wife is wife is in a Wednesday ladies program for the season. I think the cost of the programs is more cost prohibitive than the tickets themselves.

 

[HardDaysNight]

While I think the day tickets are absurd I think the main thing people should know is that they truly do not want you to buy them. I feel the season passes are not actually that expensive though. Like if I suddenly quit ski teaching I would easily buy an Epic, Ikon or Jay pass and not think twice about it. My biggest loss would be cheap gear and my primo locker spot and missing teaching.

It might be true that they don’t want you to buy them but people do, in fact, spend more on day tickets than on season passes. For 2019, Vail reported that season passes accounted for 47% of lift revenue and day pass sales made up 53%. The benefit of selling season passes is that it stabilizes revenue compared to day passes that are more weather dependent. There is a reason that walk up rates are so high, and that reason is that Vail makes a killing off day tickets!

 

[Coach13]

While I think the day tickets are absurd I think the main thing people should know is that they truly do not want you to buy them. I feel the season passes are not actually that expensive though. Like if I suddenly quit ski teaching I would easily buy an Epic, Ikon or Jay pass and not think twice about it. My biggest loss would be cheap gear and my primo locker spot and missing teaching.

That’s absolutely the case, even at the small lical resorts. Of course, I’d guess that most folks that ski on a reasonably regular basis buy some sort of pass rather than pay the window rates.

 

[raisingarizona]

I said this over on the Facebook post for this thread: if not for the fact that I work in the ski industry, I wouldn’t be able to afford to ski. And that’s just sad. I’m sad for those who hit financial barriers and are forced to abandon the sport or are blocked from ever entering it at all. There is a basic lack of equity access within the ski industry, and it's only getting worse to these eyes.

And that's the rub. Yes, the Epic/Ikon/Mountain Collective (and Peak before VR bought them) passes are a good deal if you have the financial means to buy them. Sure, if you plan ahead and buy early, they are cheaper, but it's still a big ask for individuals who are of limited means. And for families? It's a big outlay. Yes, there are cheaper options (e.g. Epic Local or Epic Military), but not everybody wants these or qualifies for them due to various and sundry restrictions.

I can speak to my own situation most closely: currently underemployed, and working freelance gigs has no guaranteed income level. Before my current state, I was working for a startup, and before then in the non-profit sector - neither of which meant I was earning big bucks. During ski season, I'm earning some extra money (though not a ton as alpine race coaching is not a vocation that pays well, especially in the Mid-Atlantic), though it doesn't make up for the fact that the cost of living in a major city is steep and the extra expenditure of skiing (commuting, passes, lodging, et al) adds up.

But let's face it: for the average person alpine skiing has become a sport for those with means and disposable income. We are outliers here at PugSki: we plan ahead, we look for the deals and ways to save money. But even with that, for those who don't have a way (or two, or three) to save and can't afford one of the big passes, the sport is extremely segmented. Local areas are available and somewhat affordable, but when one aspires to ski a bigger mountain (or simply outgrows the fun of their local hill), there's a glass ceiling for those who don't have the means.

As I said earlier: if not for the fact that I work in the industry, I wouldn't be able to afford to ski - full stop. Even if I were living deep in ski country, it would still be a tough equation to justify. And I can only imagine what it's like for those who would love to get into the sport but, when faced with all the costs involved, are unable to start (or continue) because it's a lot of money to spend. The question of equity access to alpine skiing is one that needs to be addressed, especially with the consolidation of so many resorts into a few big players.

Pay the essential bills or go for a week-long trip at a big resort (or even a local feeder resort)? Many will choose to keep a roof overhead, the electricity on, and the pantry stocked.

(Of note: I face similar issues in the bicycling industry, where equity access should be simple but isn't due to myriad issues, including economics, culture, and other factors. It's a tough nut to crack, whether skiing or bicycling.)

I’ve struggled with justifying the money spent on skiing and mountain biking. It would be so much easier and simpler to just go hiking or even pick one of my principal sports. I know a lot of people that think skiing looks fun but aren’t going to ever try it mainly because of the cost and fear of injuries.

 

[Decreed_It]

this thread reminds me to go buy my 4 of 5 day pass for Alta end of Jan/1st weekend of Feb. Prices have gone up (my memory was of high 80's/day - now it's closer to $100, still a 'deal'). Didn't do passes this year. Home mountain pass for ski team, 4 days at Alta, 4 at Steamboat on a 3-day $199 package for Winter Wondergrass deal plus a single day $155 (steep, but totals out to $354 for 4 days, not terrible) - then Spring Break TBD - 90% sure it'll be Telluride. That'll be with the boy.

Don't think there's a pass product that would have gotten me all I needed at all three. Maybe Ikon unlimited? But I did do some quick and dirty back of the napkin math before the season started, opted for online pre-purchase on a per Mtn basis and passed on the, erm, passes. None of which is paying window rate.

 

[Wade]

Those day ticket prices are insane, but there are plenty of people for who those numbers don’t move the needle. They’d ski the same number of days whether the tickets were $100 or $300 and not think twice about it.

The cost of skiing is certainly a barrier to entry, but there is nothing that says people need to ski at premium resorts.

Not many people who want to try golf feel the need to start out with a $500 green fee at Pebble Beach. They probably rent some clubs and pay $40 at their local muni to see if they like it, eventually buy some clubs, and then play the courses that they can afford to play - anything from the muni they started on to an expensive private club or high end resort courses.

it’s not perfectly analogous, because there are a lot more low end munis than there are affordable ski areas, and people don’t typically take a vacation to play them, but high prices at the Vails and Beaver Creeks of the world shouldn’t be a barrier to people entering the sport.

 

[JoeSchmoe]

The ski industry is going to implode under this model.

Even the "feeder resorts" are getting overpriced. A full day window rate ticket at tiny Holiday Valley is $88.

Some friends of ours planned a New Year's trip for the local gang to HV this winter. We're all upper middle class, but the majority of families backed out after they saw what the lift tickets were. Rentals are way up too.

In the short term existing skiers might be snapping up the mega-passes, but with a pricing model that excludes new skiers, the industry growth will eventually stall and inevitably decline.

 

[Nathanvg]

Vail reported that season passes accounted for 47% of lift revenue and day pass sales made up 53%.

Interesting... I wonder how much of that 53% is at or near full price? I suspect that most of it is significantly less due to lodging discounts, swaf, buddy tix, multi day prepurchase , employee discount, bunny hill tickets, etc.

If I'm wrong, since those numbers are by revenue, its likely that 70% of skier-days are on the pass (assuming average of about 9 days a year per pass)

 

[John O]

While I think the day tickets are absurd I think the main thing people should know is that they truly do not want you to buy them. I feel the season passes are not actually that expensive though.

Totally agree, but I still worry about what this business model means for the future of the sport. People don't start skiing by buying a season pass. If the day ticket prices are too expensive at too many places, do fewer people take up the sport? And what's the result of that? I don't know, but I think we may find out in the coming years. It could take a while to show an impact, but I'm worried that there will be a negative impact due to this current business model. Or I could be wrong, I hope all the business people at Vail and Alterra are smarter than me. Then again, they may not have the same priorities as me...

 

[fatbob]

I don't think VR and Alterra are thinking 20-30 years into the future. They are thinking about maximising profitability now and for the next 5 years.

And neither of them actually control the whole eco system. Smaller local hills remain free to operate at whatever slim margin they wish. If I had to bet I would speculate that skiing becomes more and more a rich family's sport and the crop of local hills gets thinned. At some point the big guns recognise this and instigate charitable type foundations to increase initial access to snowsports. Whether they get the timing of this right is the question.

 

[raisingarizona]

With warming weather predictions they may only be looking at the next five to maybe 20 years.

 

[amlemus]

With respect to Vail, BC, and maybe a handful of other resorts, this holiday pricing works for them; owing IMO to the clientele that they accommodate mostly. The day lift tickets are likely a price insensitive item (I believe this was mentioned earlier) for them when a trip to Vail or BC would easily dwarf that when you consider lodging, meals, other shopping. They're already there, the incremental increase in lift ticket prices ($15-$20 ticket) during those days won't prevent their purchase.

To me, the lift ticket prices act more as a deterrent to locals visiting during the holidays than anything else in order to maximize the experience of those that are visiting and limit crowds as much as they can for those days/week/etc. Let me know if I'm off-base on that but that's the tactic that seems to make the most sense to me if I were them.

 

[PinnacleJim]

Anyone planning to ski over the Christmas/New Years holidays at a major resort should be prepared to pay top dollar. Only deals on lifts are for those that bought a pass or other product like a 4-pack in advance. Here in the east the walk-up rates are not as insane and there are lots of options to get discounts. Will have to see if the recent purchases by Vail and Alterra change things here.