Using the Uber model for ski instruction - Carve Ski Instructors

[Tricia]

Here is an interesting ad that popped up on my facebook profile.
http://www.skicarve.com/#how-it-works
Looks like a private organization that uses an app, much like uber to book lessons with independent instructors at several resorts.
I've got some thoughts rolling around in my head, based on my experience with exclusivity of lessons at mountains. How did they get Kirkwood and Heavenly, but not Northstar? Why Alpine Meadows and not Squaw Valley? ....

but I'll admit I don't know everything about it and, well.....

 

[Ken_R]

Here is an interesting ad that popped up on my facebook profile.
http://www.skicarve.com/#how-it-works
Looks like a private organization that uses an app, much like uber to book lessons with independent instructors at several resorts.
I've got some thoughts rolling around in my head, based on my experience with exclusivity of lessons at mountains. How did they get Kirkwood and Heavenly, but not Northstar? .... View attachment 39472 but I'll admit I don't know everything about it and, well.....

Pretty much exactly what I was thought was needed for ski instruction. The current system is pretty bad for both instructors (low pay) and students (high costs).

"We are eagerly awaiting to hear back from the U.S. Forest Service about our own pending permit."

Hope they get that taken care of soon.

 

[Tricia]

I answered my own question. The resorts that are included in this are on USFS land. Those on private property are not included.

 

[Dakine]

The 21st century comes to ski instruction.
Creative destruction and all that bullshit.
Internet enabled.
But, at least, girls will be able to search for instructors with a nice butt.
Etc.
We call that progress these days.

 

[Tricia]

More of the thoughts rolling around in my head coming out.
The dilemma I see them getting into is using the infrastructure that the resorts own, and getting into liability.

 

[cantunamunch]

The 21st century comes to ski instruction.
Creative destruction and all that bullshit.
Internet enabled.
But, at least, girls will be able to search for instructors with a nice butt.
.

There's a (s)wipe left / (s)wipe right joke in there. I am sure of it.

 

[Ken_R]

More of the thoughts rolling around in my head coming out.
The dilemma I see them getting into is using the infrastructure that the resorts own, and getting into liability.

I am sure the resorts will do everything in their power to not allow it to operate.

 

[Seldomski]

Instructor and student pay for the infrastructure with their lift tickets.

Resorts could charge a fee for a permit/license to teach there. Part of the license is signing some waivers.

I can see this working similarly to Uber - i.e. it's not sustainable. I doubt the instructors have health coverage/liability insurance as part of the wages to the instructors. So basically this works for a while until their employees get injured or sued. Get new ones until no one gullible enough to work for them is left. Should work near college towns.

Uber works because people don't understand vehicle depreciation.

Interesting, the site says you 'pay' with a donation after the lesson is over.

 

[Rod9301]

The best thing that could happen is if usfs will allow competition among ski school in a resort, just like in Europe.

Where a lesson is about$55 and the instructor keeps about 50 of that.

So everyone benefits.

 

[Dakine]

Bunch of instructors could form an independent global ski school, do a Kickstarter and start negotiating with resort management waving cash....

 

[crgildart]

If the student gets injured during the lesson they are only able to hold an independent contractor liable for damages, lost wages, etc.. Good luck suing some very likely uninsured ski instructor for all of that. You won't be able to sue the ski resort at all unless it was something that had nothing to do with the lesson and everything to do with the facilities..

I wonder what the fine print is about insurance. The folks that come work on your house, cut your lawn, etc are usually fully bonded and insured. That way, if they happen to injure themselves cough cough working on your property they can't sue you to pay their medical bills and lost wages.. or if they somehow accidentally destroy your neighbor's house or property their insurance pays the neighbor for the damages. If this UberStructor throws their back out picking you up off the snow, can they sue you for workman's comp?

 

[Philpug]

I could see the resorts making a big stink and not allowing or preventing this. Ski schools are a huge profit center and these independents benefit from all of the "improvements" (lifts, grooming, ect) to the resorts for their financial benefit. What about insurance, if a student gets injured or worse, injures someone else, who is held responsible? Could someone contact the Forest Service and set up a waffle house or any other consession? Could a mobile tuning business set up on the hill? What about another ski shop coming in and sellling gear...er trading for "Donation", will we see M.S.D.P. (Minumum Suggested Donation Price)?

 

[Wade]

If the student gets injured during the lesson they are only able to hold an independent contractor liable for damages, lost wages, etc.. Good luck suing some very likely uninsured ski instructor for all of that. You won't be able to sue the ski resort at all unless it was something that had nothing to do with the lesson and everything to do with the facilities..

I wonder what the fine print is about insurance. The folks that come work on your house, cut your lawn, etc are usually fully bonded and insured. That way, if they happen to injure themselves cough cough working on your property they can't sue you to pay their medical bills and lost wages.. or if they somehow accidentally destroy your neighbor's house or property their insurance pays the neighbor for the damages. If this UberStructor throws their back out picking you up off the snow, can they sue you for workman's comp?

Is this a thing? Suing a ski instructor because a student injures themselves skiing during a lesson?

I mean, I know that people will sue for anything in this country, but absent some sort of gross negligence on the part of the instructor (say, explicitly directing a student to ski a line that sends them over a cliff), I assumed the waivers that get signed before lessons protect the instructor and ski school from being sued just because someone happens to hurt themselves during the course of a lesson.

 

[oldschoolskier]

Not that I like Uber because of how it gets into a market by ignoring all rules that apply to everyone else while whining and complaining while wait for new rules just for them. Force change and make everyone play by new rules geared towards the upstart.

Maybe the resort owners should look at allowing those that make them their money, make some money. Keep them happy don’t over charge their customers and business concepts such as Uber doesn’t have a leg to stand on.

Just my simple opinion.

 

[Philpug]

The difference with Uber or Lyft is that they are not driving on the roads that Checker or Bob's Cab company paved to improve and maintain.

 

[fatbob]

Resorts will make a stink and try to close it down because it exposes the scam of resort lessons - local monopoly or area cartel. Don't see why an insurer shouldn't be able to write a PLI for them fairly easily.

 

[fatbob]

The cab analog fails because of the resort monopoly on services of any kind in many places. Saying that lessons are providing the on hill infrastructure I don't think holds with the price of lift tix. Or put it another way Euro resorts have more infrastructure, are always updating lifts and aren't cross subsidised by lesson takings or rentals or F+B yet get by on a max of around Euro 50 per day for tix.

 

[peterm]

I don't like their chances of success but good luck to them. I could see the resorts coming down pretty hard on it assuming the USFS license isn't granted.

Did anyone else notice "We guarantee a minimum $30/hour" wages? I wonder if that's currently true, i.e. are they operating at a loss in order to get some traction?

 

[crgildart]

The difference with Uber or Lyft is that they are not driving on the roads that Checker or Bob's Cab company paved to improve and maintain.

So how come the shop across the street from the resort can charge people and profit to rent skis used on that same infrastructure? If the resort can say you can't teach another skier here even if you are both paying the cost to ski here wouldn't they also be able to say you can only ski here on your own gear or skis rented from our on site rental shop? It's not all that much harder to figure out who is on ski shops rentals as it is to figure out who is teaching another person to ski and getting paid by that person on your resort property..

 

[oldschoolskier]

The difference with Uber or Lyft is that they are not driving on the roads that Checker or Bob's Cab company paved to improve and maintain.

Yet they are getting away without licensing or insurance that Cabbies need to pay.

Both are about taking advantage of those that pay the costs.

Biggest thing is that they get that advantage because somewhere along the line those that make the money forget that those that pay and do the work don’t get any benefits.