...and if it does seem too fast in those conditions, please either learn how to drive or stay off the roadways in said conditions, because your poor choice in equipment (especially tires) and/or driver training is creating a dangerous situation for everyone else who wants to travel at normal speed (i.e. choose between passing, which involves at least two changes in vector, or sitting behind you at tractor speed and creating a larger slow-moving road hazard). If you have to be out and get traffic piling up behind you, please pull over and let it by (as required by law in most, if not all, states).
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Understanding Traction Control Regulation in the Mountains
...and if it does seem too fast in those conditions, please either learn how to drive or stay off the roadways in said conditions, because your poor choice in equipment (especially tires) and/or driver training is creating a dangerous situation for everyone else who wants to travel at normal speed (i.e. choose between passing, which involves at least two changes in vector, or sitting behind you at tractor speed and creating a larger slow-moving road hazard). If you have to be out and get traffic piling up behind you, please pull over and let it by (as required by law in most, if not all, states).
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I think the government intentionally makes these communications confusing. Take CO, they almost never use restriction 16. Restriction 15 is simple:
Tires must have at least 1/8 inch of tread depth when restriction 15 is in effect. Summer tires are not allowed (typically found only on sport cars). All other types of tires are approved.
No need to mention snow tires, winter tires, 4x4, AWD, chains, auto sock or any other terms. CA and NV also consider all non-summer tires to be snow tires. Unlike CO, CA, UT and NV do have times when 4x4 OR chains allow you to proceed. I thoughts some regions distinguished between M+S and winter tires but I can't find any right now.
Tires must have at least 1/8 inch of tread depth when restriction 15 is in effect. Summer tires are not allowed (typically found only on sport cars). All other types of tires are approved.
No need to mention snow tires, winter tires, 4x4, AWD, chains, auto sock or any other terms. CA and NV also consider all non-summer tires to be snow tires. Unlike CO, CA, UT and NV do have times when 4x4 OR chains allow you to proceed. I thoughts some regions distinguished between M+S and winter tires but I can't find any right now.
The Colorado law was recently updated making it a bit stronger, but I think it's still too weak.
It now requires 3/16th of an inch tread instead of 1/8th. M+S tires are required for 2WD, but those are often crappy all-season tires that do terribly in the snow. It should require 3PMS tires for both 2WD and 4WD when the traction law is in effect, IMO.
It also puts the traction requirements into effect on I-70 from Sept 1st through May 31st, no longer just during storms.
Starting Aug. 2, 2019, the legislation updates requirements for drivers using state highways during winter months.
Specifically, it changed the required minimum tire tread for vehicles on snowy roads to 3/16 of an inch. The statute also says that the minimum tire tread for dry roads is 3/16 of an inch.
The law reaffirms the department's ability to close state highways during inclement weather, and requires any motor vehicle to have one or more of the following:
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/tr...-of-i-70-for-9-months-each-year-under-new-law
Specifically, it changed the required minimum tire tread for vehicles on snowy roads to 3/16 of an inch. The statute also says that the minimum tire tread for dry roads is 3/16 of an inch.
The law reaffirms the department's ability to close state highways during inclement weather, and requires any motor vehicle to have one or more of the following:
- tire chains;
- an alternative traction device;
- four-wheel drive with adequate tire tread;
- all-wheel drive with adequate tread; and/or
- tires with manufacturer marking for snow/mud and adequate tread.
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/tr...-of-i-70-for-9-months-each-year-under-new-law
I think its simple, if there is a winter storm warning or a winter storm in progress they should go to a stricter law with harsher penalties. Its for safety, not for our powderchasing convenience. Emergency services are compromised whenever they shut down i70 due to some idiot. Not cool.
Agreed and most people with it would probably still opt for snow tires even if not required. I also think Rain X or some equivalent should be required anywhere that you receive regular precipitation but that's another issue.
Here's an admittedly selfish consumer oriented thought...
For those states that have traction control regulations, they must also require car rental companies, for the months covered in such regulations, to have mud/snow tires on - and a set of chains in the trunks of - vehicles with rental origin in those states. It would burden the rental companies with changing tires twice and cost the renter some extra $ per day (instead of being "coerced" into upgrading to an Excursion-level ride, costing $$$), but improve overall road safety. I suspect a disproportionately high percentage of the winter weather related road problems are caused by out of area drivers.
For those states that have traction control regulations, they must also require car rental companies, for the months covered in such regulations, to have mud/snow tires on - and a set of chains in the trunks of - vehicles with rental origin in those states. It would burden the rental companies with changing tires twice and cost the renter some extra $ per day (instead of being "coerced" into upgrading to an Excursion-level ride, costing $$$), but improve overall road safety. I suspect a disproportionately high percentage of the winter weather related road problems are caused by out of area drivers.
Perhaps. Maybe on a section of long straight highway. But the curvy snowy/icy high elevation PNW roads can ruin your ski day if you don't take it easy. Here, you really have to drive like the next curve is covered in ice - because that often is the case. Studs only help so much and can't fully protect you from the basic physics of F = ma.
I grew up driving in snow country. It's not the roads that worry me so much as the yahoos who bomb down unpredictable winter roads. Especially when they are travelling in the opposite direction. I'm talking people going 60+mph on icy roads where 40 mph can be pushing your luck. Every season we have at least a few close calls with some oncoming 'noob going too fast, losing it and then drifting/spinning into (or across) our lane. Or - on a two lane road - the 'noobs that insist on passing the plow (in a no passing zone!!!) and (far to often) losing it - or worse.
On the road to our mountain, the difference between driving an average of 60 mph and an average of 40 mph is just a few minutes. I don't see how it's worth all the risk to save just a few minutes. I guess that's why my car insurance premiums remain so low.
Well well well. Little traction test on i70 today:
Thread Starter
TS
In the province of Quebec Canada, all cars must have winter tires (Mountain Snowflake) in the winter season (December 1 to March 15 for 2019). According to the guy I talked to at the rental agency, it costs the consumer an extra $5 (Canadian) per day, which they charge every day, 365 days per year.
As to "Doesn't feel fast", I made a point of not letting the "feeling" of my Hakka's sucker me into passing folk in the icy snow covered passing lane when I switched over to those tires. I had a Honda 750 Interceptor that felt "slow" at a buck ten. I had to get an internal speedometer re-calibration. Let me tell you, a buck ten felt very fast sliding down the road on my backside. Now 30 mph feels slow.
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Thread Starter
TS
Article from 9 News with video
That's not snow, its hail.
Westbound Interstate 70 reopened early Saturday after a "major closure" on Friday backed up traffic for miles.
Up to four inches of hail blanketed parts of I-70 on Friday afternoon as a fast-moving storm headed from the mountains to the Denver metro area.
In a tweet, Colorado State Patrol said there was a mudslide at the top of Clear Creek Canyon.
The storm caused debris to fall on I-70. The westbound lanes were closed as crews assessed damage in the area, according to a tweet from the Colorado Department of Transportation.
Westbound I-70 remained closed overnight. CDOT crews inspected the rock face beside the interstate at sunrise Saturday before reopening all lanes.
RELATED: Weather blog: Westbound I-70 will remain closed overnight
RELATED: Severe thunderstorms moving into the metro area
RELATED: Is this the biggest hail ever in Colorado? State record possible
Much of the hail was seen in the area of Floyd Hill.
Here are some images of the busy highway in wake of this rare storm. Notice the waterfalls coming down the rock walls in the video above.
https://www.9news.com/video/weather...ee60b-2a5c-4126-bc7a-4766db195c98?jwsource=cl
IME, the "or" needs to be removed from this bullet: all-wheel drive with adequate tread; and/or
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it's oddly worded. I guess it means you can have a 4x4 with summer tires and be legal but such setups would be exceedingly rare.
If you make it an "and" you need all 4 things? yikes, chains, autosock, 4x4 and M+S. Seems like it should just say "no summer tires."
We get all kinds of folks from NYC/NJ with their Range Rovers and full tread summer rubber. It’s actually quite funny to watch then stuck in their $100k SUV’s, but super dangerous. The gate at our condo gets hit every year, most times by an SUV on summer tires. I remember when we lived in CO there were always SUV’s from TX on summer rubber stuck in the parking lots.
... and then there's the California contingent...
Yep.
Starting in our late teens, my buddy & I worked in a central CA ski shop & we'd always ski midweek via the shop's free pass...
But during some ski season weekends (particularly when we both were close to broke - which was frequently the case), we'd spend our time looking for yahoos to yank out of the snowbanks along the road to the local hill (China Peak). We'd charge a non-negotiable $40 a yank. When it was a snowy weekend (& we were free) we'd gear up, head up & cycle the road in the AM & after the lifts closed. On good days we'd handle 6 or more cars. Great way for two aimless young 'dudes to make some pocket money riding around in an old Dodge 4x4 pickup. We particularly enjoyed dealing with clueless Porsche and Mercedes owners because, well just because (OK, OK: because they always fueled a lot of funny/sick jokes in the truck on our ride back to town at the end of the day). I miss those days.
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What nonsense.
Do you stop and take a tire survey when they drive off the road? There are almost zero car dealers selling SUVs in the NYC metro area with summer tires.
Kinda wound tite? Last year it was Range Rovers and the new Alfa Romeo SUV. Beautiful cars!
When they are stuck at the resort and I walk by it’s pretty obvious. Unfortunately my dog likes the walk around the resort so we talk to alot of people and see a lot of cars. The resort here will not tow, they can’t take liability so cars can sit there for hours or overnight slid off the in resort roads (inside the resort, around the condos). When I asked security about it last year (since I couldn’t access my place) they got sued and lost a few years back for causing damage to a vehicle pulling it out of a snowbank. So now they just put traffic cones around vehicles or wait with their flashing lights going till a tow shows up.
When a vehicle is stuck blocking access to my condo and we have to give them a tug and they are complaining about the conditions with their 22’s (beautiful Yukon last year) with summer tread... How can you not see it?
Appreciate your nonsense about my non sense. Lol.
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