Turning a piste ski into race ski?

[Ozan]

So instead of buying race skis can I tune my piste ski edges at racing angles to achieve the same (or close) ice grip?

I have rossi p800 177 cm.

I like the skis but after having tried a fis 165 SL skis past season I realized that its edge grip could have been much much better.

I actually want that "race grip" on hard snow.

So what will happen if I tune my p800 at 1 and 3 degress for instance (I dont know what the default angles are). Will the perform like race skis (at theast the grip aspect)?

Thanks

 

[Doug Briggs]

Before going through the process of changing the bevels, you may want to find out what you have now. They could quite likely be 1 / 3. Additionally, finding out what the SL skis were set at might help you home in on what you liked. If they were .5 / 3 (quite likely for a true race SL ski) you'd be well served to put .5 / 3 on your 800s.

That said, your 800s have a 71 mm waist and the SL skis something more akin to 65 mm. Additionally, the SLs have a 12 - 13 m radius whereas your 177 cm 800s will have something a bit higher (I couldn't find a review with that detail). You won't get the same grip with an identical tune because the skis are interacting with the snow/ice differently. Narrower with smaller radius will outgrip wider with larger radius just about every time. The tips and tails of the former just want to engage the snow more aggressively than the latter.

 

[Jilly]

And don't forget that a true race ski vs the recreational ski may have some construction differences too. Torsional stiffness is one. It's not all the edges.

 

[eok]

Rossignol Pursuit 800 has a 15m radius @ the 177cm length. It's marketed as a high performance recreational carver. The 15m@177 radius kind of puts it midway between SL & GS. From memory, the 170cm length's radius is 14m, which is more like an SL radius.

So, I'd think if you're just starting out in a fun recreational race program (similar to NASTAR in the US), you'd probably do OK with the 800s for a while. A race-specific tune might help - but that really depends on the type of racing program, event type, your ability and what your goals are. Edge angles of 1/3 and nice sharp edges would be a good start.

If you already have some experience with racing, want to be competitive and accumulate points then you probably should consider getting real race skis.

 

[Philpug]

Paul Newman started his racing career in a Datsun 510, he learned how to drive a slow car fast. This is not the worst option for you to get into racing...hell, Bode killed others skiing K2 Fours when everyone else was on real race skis. A good aggressive tune on those P800 could get you started until you can get yourself on a real pair of race skis. At a lower level of racing, it is so much more the indian than the arrow.

 

[Ozan]

Thanks guys. I will not start racing for sure i just loved that super grippy feeling the SL skis gave me. I was like "now bring on the ice" they could cut anything.

So from what i understand whatever i do my p800 will not ever give me the same feeling. So i should get a pair of sl skis.

Note: i dont know if i want to (or Im able to) ski on SL skis all the time. It seems like driving a formula car for daily use. I would still keep my p800 and use SLs on icy days when i feel like feeling it.

 

[oldschoolskier]

No you can’t turn a piste ski into a race ski (ski companies would be mad).

However extracting that last bit of performance yes absolutely. Most skis can be tuned more aggressively. My first adjustment would be to increase the side bevel (adds edge hold) 3 to a 3.5 or 4. Done right very little ski life is lost.

For responsiveness a base grind and down to a 0.5 is good, if it to responsive tuning it back to a 0.75 or 1 doesn’t lose much ski life.

The biggest risk is if the ski can’t handle the extra loads by the more aggressive tune (and skiing) it may behave poorly and going to a regular tune may be required.

BTW true SL race skis are a pleasure to ski because of their predictability. Stick with the soft side unless you want to work them.

 

[Doug Briggs]

Thanks guys. I will not start racing for sure i just loved that super grippy feeling the SL skis gave me. I was like "now bring on the ice" they could cut anything.

So from what i understand whatever i do my p800 will not ever give me the same feeling. So i should get a pair of sl skis.

Note: i dont know if i want to (or Im able to) ski on SL skis all the time. It seems like driving a formula car for daily use. I would still keep my p800 and use SLs on icy days when i feel like feeling it.

That is a perfect solution. FWIW, you never get rid of good skis, you hold on to them and get the next best thing. In this case SLs. The 800s have race inspired construction with Titanal (metal). Pretty much all race skis are sandwich construction with one, if not two, layers of metal.

Once you get used to the SLs with more time on them, you will find that while still racey, you can get them to make less aggressive turns, too. They will still demand your attention, though.

 

[Philpug]

No you can’t turn a piste ski into a race ski (ski companies would be mad).

You lost me on this, or was it supposed to be sarcastic?

 

[crgildart]

It's not the arrow, it's the archer... until the archer is really REALLY good and has a great arrow. A really good racer on your 800s would crush me even if I was on WC race room skis. Take good care of the skis you've got, try some NASTAR or other friendly race league stuff until you plateau and really know you've maxed out on what you are riding. THEN go demo some more race specefic gear and find what works best for you for the purpose.

 

[Jilly]

Thanks guys. I will not start racing for sure i just loved that super grippy feeling the SL skis gave me. I was like "now bring on the ice" they could cut anything.

So from what i understand whatever i do my p800 will not ever give me the same feeling. So i should get a pair of sl skis.

Note: i dont know if i want to (or Im able to) ski on SL skis all the time. It seems like driving a formula car for daily use. I would still keep my p800 and use SLs on icy days when i feel like feeling it.

OK, I'm a girl and I ski the Rossi Hero ST Ca. It's a tuned down race ski. I think the P8000 is a slight bit below that based on the dimensions and ski construction. But if you're looking for a carver and haven't been on a race ski....it could work.

I love my 68 under foot. My Rossi Hero MT's are up for sale as I didn't like the 74. Yet I loved the Rossi Z5's from years ago. One of the many reason's you need to demo!!

 

[slowrider]

I rolled over to the fis sl club 2 years ago. Stockli & Rossi. With a good tune and solid technique even ice is fun.

 

[razie]

If it has some metal, it should be decent. It will not hold on ice at a serious pace but on normal snow, if you sharpen it, it will feel better.

At the same time, it will be less forgiving for every day skiing - it will require more skill to ski on a daily basis, in bumps, hard snow etc.
Best option: sharpen it a bit and get a dedicated SL ski.

- it's often recommended to use a softer ski for tech skiing - all the more reason to get two

 

[Jacques]

Paul Newman started his racing career in a Datsun 510, he learned how to drive a slow car fast. This is not the worst option for you to get into racing...hell, Bode killed others skiing K2 Fours when everyone else was on real race skis. A good aggressive tune on those P800 could get you started until you can get yourself on a real pair of race skis. At a lower level of racing, it is so much more the indian than the arrow.

Can't say that anymore!
Can say the below. New rules.

It's not the arrow, it's the archer... until the archer is really REALLY good and has a great arrow. A really good racer on your 800s would crush me even if I was on WC race room skis. Take good care of the skis you've got, try some NASTAR or other friendly race league stuff until you plateau and really know you've maxed out on what you are riding. THEN go demo some more race specefic gear and find what works best for you for the purpose.

 

[François Pugh]

How much do you weigh? Lightweights do not really need the torsional rigidity of a full-on SL.
The the extra width of your P800 will make tipping a little less effortless, and reduce the quickness. Also, the tip rocker tends spoil things for me at turn initiation (once tipped over and engaged, it's no problem, but does require a leap of faith for hard charging so to speak), but that is a preference thing I have developed that not everyone shares. Even some SL skis have tip rocker (albeit limited). I guess a little forgiveness can turn a DNF into at least points for finishing.

That being said, putting a 0.5 base bevel will increase quickness of response and precision, and once you're used to it you will prefer it, except for bumps and other sideways skiing. Three degrees side bevel (with a 0.5 degree base bevel) should be enough until you know you want more.

 

[NE1]

Also, the tip rocker tends spoil things for me at turn initiation (once tipped over and engaged, it's no problem, but does require a leap of faith for hard charging so to speak), but that is a preference thing I have developed that not everyone shares.

Amen. Rocker makes it seem like you have to wait a looong time for the tip to engage when you are used to immediate response!

 

[Philpug]

Amen. Rocker makes it seem like you have to wait a looong time for the tip to engage when you are used to immediate response!

Hmmm Rossignol put rocker into their GS skis for a while, didn't seem to be too much of a detriment.

 

[crgildart]

Hmmm Rossignol put rocker into their GS skis for a while, didn't seem to be too much of a detriment.
View attachment 108869

"Rocker" or "early rise"?

 

[Philpug]

"Rocker" or "early rise"?

I think that says Rocker on the top. Read it again...what do you see?

 

[Doug Briggs]

Early rise is a subset of rocker. I'd say race skis with 'rocker' are utilizing the 'early rise' type. Regardless, race ski early rise is subtle.