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Turn initiation

everest8850

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question: when picking a ski for easier turn initiation, how key are these factors?
1) shorter length skis
2) front rocker/ early rise
3) flex of ski(softer/harder?)
4) turn radius
 

Philpug

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5)Tip flair and the shape of the tip.

Regarding #3, if a ski does not bend, it will not turn.
 

KingGrump

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6) Width of the ski under foot.
 

JFB

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Several good thoughts so far. But it's "sidecut radius", not "turn radius" and its importance becomes more evident when you think about it that way.
 

Fishbowl

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If I remember correctly, this is the member with limited foot control/mobility, that prevents him from getting forwards on the ski. So it may be worth considering how (technique) the turn is initiated first, then consider the characteristics of ski design. Apologies if this is just a "general" question and not related to the OP's circumstances.
 

Doug Briggs

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In order of decreasing (or as my computer science instructor would say, non-ascending) importance

1) turn radius - smaller radius will initiate a turn more readily
1a) tip shape - the more flare the tip has the easier it will start a turn
2) shorter length skis - these generally have smaller radius but all things the same, a ski with the same tip waist and tail widths will turn more easily if it is shorter; it will also have a smaller radius than a longer version
3) flex of ski(softer/harder?) - you don't want them too soft (tip pressure is harder to attain) or too stiff (over-responsive), you want them Baby Bear (just right)
4) front rocker/ early rise - I'm not a believer that this aids turning other than to allow a longer ski to have a shorter effective radius especially when combined with a rockered area that gets narrower towards the tip rather than wider
 
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everest8850

everest8850

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If I remember correctly, this is the member with limited foot control/mobility, that prevents him from getting forwards on the ski. So it may be worth considering how (technique) the turn is initiated first, then consider the characteristics of ski design. Apologies if this is just a "general" question and not related to the OP's circumstances.

Thanks for remembering! Yes, the question was in my context - but then again it was also answered well from others rom a general perspective of ski physics.

Question expansion: Early rise/rocker - many all mountain skis now sport a front end rocker with a typical shovel/body/tail config in % being 15:80:05; a few also have a rear-end rocker that's abit more than just a small tip rise (20:60:20). How do you think that affects turn initiation and exit? From my thinking , it allows a longer ski to have less contact on a surface, therby aiding the swing phase to initiate a turn. However the tail rocker may also mean a more skiddy finish versus a clean carve; with the tradeoff being giving the ski a more playful/surfy feel. Do you think I've nailed that correctly?
 

cantunamunch

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From my thinking , it allows a longer ski to have less contact on a surface, therby aiding the swing phase to initiate a turn.

Not wrong, but incomplete. Front end rocker and front end splay also control the timing of the engagement of the front sections of edge when making turns that initiate by tipping instead of (yaw plane) swinging.
 

oldschoolskier

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Any good slalom shaped/length ski will do the trick, Generally the softer FIS skis will behave more predictably, but a good softer beer league ski would be fine (both with a moderate tune 1-3)

With limited mobility, a simple roll on to the edge of the skis will initiate the turn and if balanced will to some part ensure that the skier follows the path of the ski while to some degree forces the correct body position to remain balanced. Please note this is not at race speeds, but at slow to moderate speeds and easy to moderate slopes.

This is why my favorite practice ski for high speed is a high performance SL ski at slow speeds on flatter terrain. You can mimic all GS moves at ultra low speeds developing the feel and timing as a slower pace and no risk. Do it wrong you stop, do it right, its a rush. Step up the pace and initiation step on GS skis and you are pretty close. I've let beginners and intermediates try my skis (BSL size dependent) and watch the joy of the experience of carving turns (sometimes for the first time) with little effort. Ski the SL skis as SL skis are meant to be skied and that is a whole other rush, pushes your skills and reactions to the limit. Remember when pushed they want to return energy for the next turn, when babied they just want to turn when on edge. They don't like straight and flat.

I will add that the correct boot set up will greatly help, in terms of stiffness and forward tilt and so on (this I'll definitely leave to the boot guys as to the best advise here as limited mobility requires a balance of assistance vs hinderance).

I know that this advise goes against regular teaching methods, but it does ensure teach carving and balance in the round about backwards kinda way. There are still other skills that must be mastered, but that's a different discussion.

Carve on, have fun.
 

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