Truth is in the tune. Or is it?

[Doug Briggs]

You are taking this way too seriously. If you race or ski on ice, tuning is important. If you are just cruising around, mashing soft bumps or chasing powder you don't really need much of a tune. I prefer a bit draggy ski in the bumps so I avoid wax. Plastic lasts forever so the bases aren't going to degrade without wax. When I need to race, I will get a nice tune. Until then, I will enjoy skiing. If you enjoy playing with ski tuning, that is an art in itself worthy of your interest. But it won't affect the skis for my crude skiing skills.

Eric

Plastic doesn't last forever. Base burn is real and degrades the base surface creating drag. If you like drag or prefer skis that don't slide reliably and predictably, then continue not to wax. Burrs on edges also create drag and reduce the effectiveness of the edges. Massively sharp edges aren't needed in the Colorado 3D snow I ski, however, the entire mountain is rarely 3D snow. A good edge doesn't inhibit performance in 3D snow yet a dull edge will create issues on hard or icy snow, so a good edge is desirable, for most.

I'll grant you 'to each his own', but one of the posters indicated they are very sensitive to their tunes and even a 'good' tune may not satisfy everyone. I am sensitive to edge and base damage and while most of m skis will behave just fine without mega-sharp edges, I still like my bases smooth and flat and my edges true and burr-free.

 

[Eleeski]

Polyethylene pipe is rated for a hundred year life. Ski bases are a polyethylene. Bases do not spontaneously deteriorate regardless of the waxing. I'm not sure what you are calling "base burn" or how such damage can happen. Wouldn't a nice base grind deal with any issues with the base?

I do prefer sharp edges on my skis regardless of the snow. It seems like there's always an icy traverse to the soft pitch. But honestly I'm too lazy to sharpen unless it's really icy.

The serious tuners blow past me on the hill. But my slow line in the bumps is fun.

Eric

 

[Jed Peters]

You are taking this way too seriously. If you race or ski on ice, tuning is important. If you are just cruising around, mashing soft bumps or chasing powder you don't really need much of a tune. I prefer a bit draggy ski in the bumps so I avoid wax. Plastic lasts forever so the bases aren't going to degrade without wax. When I need to race, I will get a nice tune. Until then, I will enjoy skiing. If you enjoy playing with ski tuning, that is an art in itself worthy of your interest. But it won't affect the skis for my crude skiing skills.

Eric

Don't sell tunes short. Even those not extremely adept should branch out and spend some money on a tune (or learn how to do it yourself)...

 

[Philpug]

And all tunes are not created equal. Not all tune shops are created equal. Just because a shop has the proper equipment does not mean you will get a good tune. It still comes down to the person running the equipment. Just because the person has all the right tools at home does not mean he knows how to use them correctly. Tuning is art and not everyone is an artist.

 

[Read Blinn]

You are taking this way too seriously. If you race or ski on ice, tuning is important. If you are just cruising around, mashing soft bumps or chasing powder you don't really need much of a tune. I prefer a bit draggy ski in the bumps so I avoid wax. Plastic lasts forever so the bases aren't going to degrade without wax. When I need to race, I will get a nice tune. Until then, I will enjoy skiing. If you enjoy playing with ski tuning, that is an art in itself worthy of your interest. But it won't affect the skis for my crude skiing skills.

Eric

If you ski the east, you might want a decent tune. (Or I might want one, at any rate.)

 

[Alexzn]

@Eleeski- the only conditions where the tune truly does not matter are powder or spring snow (i.e. anything soft). Anything hard and the edge hold starts to matter. Every December I sharpen my rock skis and discover that it has absolutely no effect on edge hold. the bases are too rounded, the ski needs a grind. But who in their right mind grinds a rock ski? So I keep sliding around... Another prop to SkisAndMore in Truckee: Sorin's tune on my GS skis looks so beautiful, I am almost reluctant to ski on it.

 

[oldschoolskier]

I started tuning, repairing and mounting ski bindings at a young age (12-13) because money wan't there to have it done professionally and then go ski. It was one or the other.

Now a days the mantra is let the pros do it, and while I agree especially for boot fitting (all skier levels) and somewhat for binding mounting and set up (for all but experienced skiers), tuning is something that all should be able to do and should do to some extent.

A good skiable tune (I'd even to go as far as to say top end race tune) is in reach of any skier with a little patience and a little effort with the the readily available inexpensive tools available today. I started when tools consisted of a file, some sort of iron (mom hated me for this), scraper of some sort, cork and knowing how to use it all to get the best results.

Instruction consisted of a try something and see what happened (unless you happened to be in a top ski area) as there was no one to teach. Now the Internet gives access to professional top end instruction for free in a 30min or less video.

My mantra is learn to tune, not to have a good edge, but to ski better because you will understand your ski and what it's telling you when the tune is bad (damage, poor tune by shop, or worn). By learning this your technique will also improve because you know how to listen to your ski and understand what to change to make it work better.

The biggest secret not mentioned anywhere is patience, go slow, add as little as possible, remove as little as possible with as little pressure as possible and all will be good with even more patience.

 

[KevinF]

Polyethylene pipe is rated for a hundred year life. Ski bases are a polyethylene. Bases do not spontaneously deteriorate regardless of the waxing. I'm not sure what you are calling "base burn" or how such damage can happen. Wouldn't a nice base grind deal with any issues with the base?

I do prefer sharp edges on my skis regardless of the snow. It seems like there's always an icy traverse to the soft pitch. But honestly I'm too lazy to sharpen unless it's really icy.

The serious tuners blow past me on the hill. But my slow line in the bumps is fun.

Eric

Your skis generate heat from the friction present whenever a ski slides across snow. The heat can damage bases. Do that long enough and the microscopic pores in your bases get fused together to the point that the base won't accept wax anymore. At that point, your bases are "burned".

The only wax to fix it is to stone grind the bases to get below the heat-damaged section.

 

[GettingThere]

Where does @smoothrides work?

Never mind, found it: http://www.smoothridestahoe.com/

Had never heard of them.

Is Smoothrides at the (northwest) corner of Alder Creek and 89? I see a big van and a ski tuning sign there anytime I go that way.

 

[Eleeski]

After I finish clubbing baby seals, I come post here to claim that the best skiers don't always have the best tune - they do have the best skills. Spend your time and money on training and coaching before you stress about fancy wax and polished edges.

Eric

 

[Jed Peters]

After I finish clubbing baby seals, I come post here to claim that the best skiers don't always have the best tune - they do have the best skills. Spend your time and money on training and coaching before you stress about fancy wax and polished edges.

Eric

Wrong.

The best skiers always have the best tunes. And the best skis, boots, and other equipment.

That is a fact that is unarguable.

Jed

 

[Philpug]

After I finish clubbing baby seals, I come post here to claim that the best skiers don't always have the best tune - they do have the best skills. Spend your time and money on training and coaching before you stress about fancy wax and polished edges.

Eric

No one says you are out clubbing baby seals or anything like that, we can disagree. No need to take it that personal. I will agree and disagree with you...waxes, unless you are racing in speed events where the ski is gliding can receive a bit much focus, but what is wrong with that? I recall one time after a big race and a local racer killed it, parents were coming in and asking "What was on Scottie Lebel's skis.???"..We just replied..."Scottie Lebel". Edges though, are more important. Like brakes in your car, they need attention, you don't realize how your brakes change day to day until you get into a car that has new brakes then get back into yours where the brakes are bad..huge difference. Same with a neglected tune, you adjust as a skier to it.

Back to the OP and what has been discussed here is either a bad initial turn or no tune at all. That is where there is an issue. Is the ski concave or convex? Do the edges have a consistent angle? All of this will determin if the ski will start OK. An older ski like you are skiing, hell that is your choice if you wnat to tune it or not. If you like no wax to slow you down in the bumps or smooth edges to help you ski easy, that is all your choice but others have different wants and needs.

 

[Jed Peters]

Back to the OP and what has been discussed here is either a bad initial turn or no tune at all. That is where there is an issue. Is the ski concave or convex? Do the edges have a consistent angle? All of this will determin if the ski will start OK.

Nailed it.

Tune on my "new" skis was not to my liking--and the skis didn't perform.

Skis on new stockli out of the wrapper--the skis didn't perform as they should.

Skis on new head race skis out of the wrapper--the junior skier couldn't effectively ski the skis how she should--they skied her instead of the other way around. After a tune? Third parties even saw what a big difference there was.

 

[Eleeski]

No personal offense taken to generate the seal clubbing crack, I was just being silly. When the title of the thread is "Truth is in the tune, or is it?" that begs some light dissent. Like when the base plastic burns at a higher temperature than boiling water, I become quite envious of those people who have vapor trails coming off their skis. Finally, it's nice to know that all I have to do is spend a lot of money on fancy equipment and tunes to be the best skier, unarguably.

I certainly stand by my claim that tuning is taken way too seriously here.

Eric

 

[Xela]

I like to glide forward and I don't like to slide sideways. So, I wax and I sharpen.

 

[cantunamunch]

Still unanswered:

Sidewall prep: tell me about Holmenkol's sidewall finish - what is it and which sidewalls can use it?

 

[skibob]

I just got my first professional tune a few weeks ago on my Fischer Motive 95s. I think the timing was just right for me. I am an advanced skier, but NOT an expert skier. I suppose that makes me one of the lesser skilled skiers on this board, which is great by me.

Any sooner, and I think I owould not have appreciated it. In fact, I think it would have held me back. Not that a proper tune would be bad for beginner or intermediate, but THIS tune would have been. These are some sharp edges. In fact, I bought a used pair of skis with a fresh tune several years ago when I started skiing again. And I had trouble releasing the tails in deep cruddy snow. I imagine this is why.

Do I like the current tune? In the words of Tom Petty: "Oh my my, whoa hell yeah!" Do I ski better? Emphatic yes. Am I a better skier because of the tune? Nah. Do I have more fun? Tom can answer that again.

I'll keep doing my own waxing, deburring, minor tuning. But I can imagine I'll get a pro edge on my primary skis once a year from now on. We'll see how I like those edges as the spring progresses until I switch to rock skis. YMMV.

 

[Philpug]

I just got my first professional tune a few weeks ago on my Fischer Motive 95s. I think the timing was just right for me. I am an advanced skier, but NOT an expert skier. I suppose that makes me one of the lesser skilled skiers on this board, which is great by me.

Any sooner, and I think I owould not have appreciated it. In fact, I think it would have held me back. Not that a proper tune would be bad for beginner or intermediate, but THIS tune would have been. These are some sharp edges. In fact, I bought a used pair of skis with a fresh tune several years ago when I started skiing again. And I had trouble releasing the tails in deep cruddy snow. I imagine this is why.

Do I like the current tune? In the words of Tom Petty: "Oh my my, whoa hell yeah!" Do I ski better? Emphatic yes. Am I a better skier because of the tune? Nah. Do I have more fun? Tom can answer that again.

I'll keep doing my own waxing, deburring, minor tuning. But I can imagine I'll get a pro edge on my primary skis once a year from now on. We'll see how I like those edges as the spring progresses until I switch to rock skis. YMMV.

If you don't mind me getting too personal, who did the tune?

 

[Jed Peters]

Interestingly enough, the new Stockli SR95s my dad just got, although "mostly" flat had literally ZERO base or edge bevel.

They were 90 degrees!

Check your "new" skis people!!!!

 

[Choucas]

My feeling is that you can up the performance of any brand new ski by somewhere in the 5% -- 15% range by doing a good tune and wax job. If you ski it untuned, straight out of the wrapper, you might give it an 85. Go back and get it tuned, and ski it on the same hill and odds are that it will jump to a 90+. It will not get worse. It will only get better.
I'd love to see a test with a known, category leading ski, tested with an untouched factory tune. And then put a real, complete tune on it and take it back out for the same test. Phil, you'd do a big service to your readers by doing something along these lines. It would have to be a retail ski, right off the rack, not something out of a company demo van. As some folks know, there is some history of demo van skis and skis shipped to media ski tests working a lot better than the actual production skis.