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Tried and failed to get a lesson at Liberty

mikel

Making fresh tracks
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The ski school thing seems to be a mess in lots of places. I went to an expo to buy my pass this season. Got a pass that includes 3 group lessons. There was no line at the booth so I talked with the rep a bit about ski lessons -- some of the things I need to work on, my hope to meet a ski instructor during those lessons who I work with really well so I can continue with private lessons. Turns out, she IS an instructor. She started chatting me up, would love to work with me, etc. I didn't ask about her certification, but asked about her experience -- when she started skiing, teaching, etc. She's in her mid-30s. She gave up skiing for snowboarding 20 years ago. Hasn't skied in 20 years, but would like to be hired for private ski lessons? :huh: That's messed up.

Not sure of you've used your lessons yet but if you can ski on Thursdays then you might want to have a chat with Ryder. Pretty good guy and might be someone you would like working with.
 

VickieH

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Not sure of you've used your lessons yet but if you can ski on Thursdays then you might want to have a chat with Ryder. Pretty good guy and might be someone you would like working with.
Thanks. I'll look for him. Haven't started lessons yet. I had to take a month-long break. Should start lessons this week or next.
 

Prosper

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I'm a solid level 7 working on level 8 . When I take a lesson (midweek) there is often no one else, or maybe one other guy at my level. So I get a private or semiprivate for the cost of a class. Last time, at Stratton, I even got a private with the boss instructor... he said he saw there was only one expert lesson sold, and he wanted to ski that morning, so he took me for himself. Sweet.

Anyway, apropos of this discussion, I was looking to take a couple more lessons last week. Looked at Stratton's web site and it now says
"Our teen and adult .... group lessons are geared towards beginner, yellow, green, or blue skill levels "

So I checked Sugarbush and their group lesson page says
"Ski and ride, levels 2-6 "

So is this an industry trend? They don't want to pay a class instructor when they only collect from one student? Lessons are expensive enough, I am not going to pay for a private.
At least they're up front about it. Much worse would be if they advertised advanced lessons, took an "advanced" group out but were not able to provide appropriate instruction for higher level skiers.
 

DaveD

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At least they're up front about it. Much worse would be if they advertised advanced lessons, took an "advanced" group out but were not able to provide appropriate instruction for higher level skiers.
Well, anywhere else I go now, I will have to be prepared to get turned down like the OP was. If I find someone who lists advanced class lessons, I'm going to bring printouts of the web page.
 

nunyabiz

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Well, anywhere else I go now, I will have to be prepared to get turned down like the OP was. If I find someone who lists advanced class lessons, I'm going to bring printouts of the web page.
If I was intent on getting an advanced group lesson, I'd call ahead. Taking a printout from the web page as a means of trying to get what you want sounds like a solid start to an underwhelming lesson experience.
 

Mike King

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What are the suspected reasons for this?
Management didn't exactly tie the rationale together, but there are a number of factors that one can hypothesize for the reasons, some of which have been tied together in our response to the trend:

  1. The cost of skiing generally and the incremental cost of group lessons on top of those costs specifically.
  2. The access that modern equipment gives to "good enough" skiing and the lack of interest in improving beyond adequate skiing.
  3. Changes in the preferences of the general public to outdoor recreation generally and skiing specifically.
  4. A mismatch of the motivations of potential participants (say to be part of a social group, to be in nature, to improve their skiing, or to have a transformational experience) versus the teaching objectives of the group instructor (to get them to the next level).
  5. Alternatives to skiing/outdoor recreation, such as video games.
  6. ETC.
Mike
 

James

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What are the suspected reasons for this?
Was happening before youtube, but that prob contributed.
Demographic of the takers. Not their thing. Plus, this was talked about endlessly over 10 yrs ago on epic.

I had a blue group of two. On the first run from the top, so our second run, the guy just left. Never said a word. He was a bit better than the woman, but easy to work out the two. Get this- he wanted to learn to skate. Something to do with his kids learning. I guess he figured it out.
 
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Prosper

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What are the suspected reasons for this?
I'm not sure about the beginner or intermediate group lessons but in general more advanced skiers take less lessons. They tend to do more camps or programs. I'm not an industry insider though so my opinion is based on observation and assumption.
 

Mike King

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I'm not sure about the beginner or intermediate group lessons but in general more advanced skiers take less lessons. They tend to do more camps or programs. I'm not an industry insider though so my opinion is based on observation and assumption.
I don't think that the data support this conclusion -- that is that advanced students take more camps or programs. For evidence, consider that the common program a couple of decades ago was the ski week. Today, the only place that still has one is Taos, and then it is run out of one hotel. It has disappeared from virtually ever other ski area. Even the camps, such as Steep and Deep, have had declining participation. And the participation in those programs is much less than the participation in group lessons, even at the advanced levels.
 

HardDaysNight

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I don't think that the data support this conclusion -- that is that advanced students take more camps or programs. For evidence, consider that the common program a couple of decades ago was the ski week. Today, the only place that still has one is Taos, and then it is run out of one hotel. It has disappeared from virtually ever other ski area. Even the camps, such as Steep and Deep, have had declining participation. And the participation in those programs is much less than the participation in group lessons, even at the advanced levels.
PCMR still has Ski College weeks. A long standing tradition, they run all day Monday through Friday three times during December, so early season. Groups of 5-6 usually with decent instructors. $700 for the 5 days.
 

James

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Fat skis, declining #'s of bump skiers, plus attitude.
For some reason, Taos has created ski weeks as the thing to do. Might have as much to do with Jean Mayer as the terrain. It's also reasonable.
 

dbostedo

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...and then it is run out of one hotel...

What does this mean?

It's also reasonable.

It IS. Although Taos has been steadily increasing the price the last few years. From recollection, it's been something like:

2017 - $150
2018 - $200
2019 - $260
2020 - $330
 

dbostedo

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Basically 6 group lessons. @dbostedo , it’s more like 3 hours/day?

2 hours per day for 6 days officially... you might get a little bit more depending on the instructor (we went more like 2:15 each day last week). Not a bad deal, but not the screaming deal of a few seasons ago.
 

mdf

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Officially 10 to 12 each day, but my class was started early by mutual agreement and went till at least the official quitting time. So 9:30 to at least 12 and more often 12:15 to 12:30.
Which is ~2:45 per day.

it is run out of one hotel
There is an option to bundle staying at the St. Bernard with a ski week. But you can get the ski week by itself, and most people do.
 

crgildart

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Officially 10 to 12 each day, but my class was started early by mutual agreement and went till at least the official quitting time. So 9:30 to at least 12 and more often 12:15 to 12:30.
Which is ~2:45 per day.

They knew most of you were PugSkiers who will give great social media recommendations. You got special treatment me thinks..
 

mdf

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For some reason, Taos has created ski weeks as the thing to do.
There are a lot of students who come back over and over.
One of the guys in my class (who was in my class last year, too) told me he does 4 ski weeks per year. Apparently some people have done as many as 150 ski weeks.

Heck, I've done 3 myself.
 

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