Tom Gellies' Bump Lesson Speed Control and Line Control video is Outstanding!

[Mike King]

My point is NOT that you should have learned from PSIA. I literally never said that. I did say they these words have literally been said by PSIA members on this very forum. I am not un happy that you are learning either. I am actually only asking and digging deeper because I am all for novel approaches. That is it. No idea how you could take it as bullying. It honestly seems as if its fake outrage and VERY defensive. Again to each his own, you can do what if you want. I only ask because I seek novel and new.



Where have bashed what Tom has said? All I am saying is so far he is IMO SPOT on, but its not novel, not even close. To his or anyone credit the novel approaches in this sport get squelched because most people that are novel do not put up with BS and tend to get drowned out.

You guys really think Aussie, New Zealand skiing is like Eastern skiing? wow again, as someone who has spent mutliple season teaching in aussie, the snow conditions can be variable, but they tend to be warmer(more corn/slush) and there is nothing approaching the technical aspect of eastern off piste skiing. Everyone who says such things has simply never skied in the east.

According to Josh Matta, there's better powder skiing in the East than the West, so?

Ok, so I'm bored, and just stirring the pot. I'm sure there is no technical skiing in New Zealand, which is why there's never been a WFT athlete from there. Oh, wait, there's Sam Smoothy...

 

[LiquidFeet]

Tom Gellie is a two-time APSI demo team member -- once tele, and now alpine. He not only teaches in Japan, but also in Australia and New Zealand. From what I understand, if you want real hard snow, go to Australia or New Zealand -- it makes NE look like it is out west.

Consider the pot stirred.

@Mike King, do you have a link to some technical BUMP skiing in New Zealand or Australia? What we have been talking about is bump skiing. I believe that's what the topic was when you brought up New Zealand and Australia's hard snow skiing.

The point you seemed to be making in the quoted post above was how New Zealand/Aussie technical bump skiing on hard snow is so radical that it makes technical New England bump skiing look as easy as soft regularly-shaped bumps on an uninterrupted wide bump field out west. That's what I got from that post you made.

 

[markojp]

Bumps are bumps. Sometimes they're just god awful shapes, rock hard, and NOT fun to ski. I've run into these on three continents. I'm sure the east has a greater percentage of these types of days, but they can certainly be found pretty much anywhere. My all time crappiest bumps that I recall was at Alpine Meadows in the late 80's... they were large, rock hard, and square. We have our coral reef moments in the PNW as well... high moisture snow, huge temp variations, etc.... the difference here is that there's probably just more terrain to ski if you don't want to Jack hammer your teeth out of your skull.

 

[TheArchitect]

Tim, make sure you watch the first bump lesson. It lays out a lot of other stuff that hugely compliments the new bump lesson video. And the fore/aft videos are fantastic as well. Actually, I don't think there's anything I've watched that didn't take my understanding to a different level.

IMHO, this is so much better than Projected Productions. The Projected Productions stuff is useful to see great skiing, but these videos are different -- they integrate a lot of the individual pieces in a way that is amazing. And more productive for me -- it's not just drills; it's integrated technique for the advanced skier.

BTW, Tim, Chloe from the video is an Aspen pro and member of Team 1 for the Aspen Divas. Those women rock and won the Aspen World Synchronized Skiing Championship last year. If not for the current shutdown, I'd be running the competition again this weekend...

Mike

Interesting. I finished the Projected Productions videos about a week ago. I thought they were good but I didn't get as much out of them as I had hoped. Maybe I'll check out Tom's video's.

 

[KingGrump]

Oh boy, I hope we get truly atrocious bumps again.
Wait...what am I saying!

You are either glutton for punishment or in dire need of a life.
Whichever it is. Remind me not to hang out with you.

No wonder you are the current secretary of the MBI.

 

[Brad J]

in dire need of a life.

Yup, or at least the life we once had. I always find it hard when the season ends but this is way harder. I certainly be happy trying to find the round lines in the atrocious bumps at MRG right about now.

 

[Mike King]

Consider the pot stirred.

@Mike King, do you have a link to some technical BUMP skiing in New Zealand or Australia? What we have been talking about is bump skiing. I believe that's what the topic was when you brought up New Zealand and Australia's hard snow skiing.

The point you seemed to be making in the quoted post above was how New Zealand/Aussie technical bump skiing on hard snow is so radical that it makes technical New England bump skiing look as easy as soft regularly-shaped bumps on an uninterrupted wide bump field out west. That's what I got from that post you made.

Well, you mentioned granite in your previous post. And certainly some might call Mr. Smoothy's line "technical" even if the the snow was not that firm (as noted by Josh Matta/Bendu outside of this forum).

So, here's some skiing you might find to be "technical," some of it bumps, and in conditions that you may or may not find to be icy. It is, however, amazing skiing, and you can see some of the influence of the Japanese that comes through into Mr. Gellie's skiing.


And for those lines that have no backside to the bump, this works pretty much everywhere.


Just to be clear, big icy bumps are definitely intimidating. My son-in-law and I, along with our Extremely Canadian guide, decided discretion was the better part of valor. The bumps were more or less blue. We had a 5 day heli trip starting in a couple of days and didn't feel it was worth the risk of skiing it...

So, what's different in extreme terrain or terrible snow? It's all the same stuff technically, although you may need a different skill blend. What really differs, usually, is the tactics.

Mike

 

[TheArchitect]

Ok^, but doesn’t answer the specific question he’s posed like three times. We’re not questioning you liked them or got something out of them.

Those triangle moguls at Madriver Glen last year during the gathering were bizarre. @mdf and I were told by a patroller, “it’s the teley skiers” who make those.

I remember those miserable bumps. I'm working hard on improving my bump skiing but the bumps that day made me feel like I didn't belong on the mountain.

EDIT: after reading other posts it would seem that there are two different NEG's mentioned. Last year definitely had the glue snow but I also thought that the shapes of the moguls were bizarre, soft or not. It's really frustrating that when I ski bumps out west I feel like I actually know what I'm doing but back here I feel like I should stick to the groomers.

 

[SSSdave]

The thing to do now since there obviously is some interest is next season to for some of you to take images with a smart phone or small digital camera like I do on the link above. Then we can all look at and decide how they are different. Key is taking images when light is usable that during winter is often near mid day when sunny on northern exposure where most better bumps are. A lot of images I see are taken in less than optimal light, usually cloudy or shady, that doesn't provide an image with reasonable 3 D visibility. Sucks as a still too haha. Best when just minor amount of shading under blue skies.

That maruyama video is in much too dark lighting haha. Way more powerful skier at speed 154# versus 132# than me, but when he's making shorter turns, he looks too much like my own short game especially his upper body that sinuously sweeps down the body in a rhythmic muscular body form way. And just like me, he can really crank the speed down extra slowly, by turning off the countering bilateral upper chest mass while edging at the feet confidently. Interesting how many of our bodies have such neuromusculoskelectal similarities that he developed his plastic muscular and brain control structures similar to my own that reflects how the human ski system locates similar balance points that one focuses on as a dynamic repeating rebounding pin ball feeling till it becomes part of one's memory and motor control as new built cellular fiber structures.

 

[markojp]

So you're saying you ski at Takao's level? When are your vids coming out?

 

[SSSdave]

I'm the little takao

 

[Brad J]

The thing to do now since there obviously is some interest is next season to for some of you to take images with a smart phone or small digital camera

Lets do one better and invite all the west guys to the NEG for a demonstration, I am all about improving my bump skiing. I am sure in late March Chute at MRG will be prime for the event.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

The crazy thing about that 2nd Takao video is that there are no bumps. It's just a bump-shaped ditch. Pretty cool.

 

[François Pugh]

I'm sure many here ski bumps much better than I; my bump skiing sucks, mostly because I'm not motivated enough to spend enough time practicing my traditional short-radius turn (that and the fact that I currently very inflexible compared to what I once was - long story, will work on it now that my strength is coming back up). However I don't really care about getting points for style and I can ski down pretty much anything I want to ski without falling, so I'm not going to pay someone $50 to improve my skiing. I would rather have a steak dinner.

In fifty some years of skiing I've seen a lot of bumps, Some very icy ones in Ontario and Quebec, (remember the ice storms?), and some very soft ones on Vancouver island. Most were between knee and chest height, but once or twice they were VW bug sized.

Back in the day I used to spend the mornings getting my kicks searching out lines that avoided bumps but offered the most high-speed thrills. It wasn't until I was tired in the last part of the skiing day that I decided that was too dangerous in my condition and explored the rest of the mountain. By then the back side of every bump was nicely polished ice, and I had absolutely no idea how to ski them. I tried applying the standard methods, in those icy bumps with little success. My main problem is I didn't understand how slow you had to go, and there just wasn't that much slowing down I could get by scraping skis on the ice on the back side of the bumps. Yes there are tactics to use and other ways to slow down (using the front shoulders of the bumps, timing when to absorption and when to resist gravity, etc.)

About a decade ago (maybe two - I'm not into time), mostly due to boredom I decided to learn how to properly ski bumps. It's still a pet project that I work at once in a while, but I'm lazy so not too much work for me. There is a lot of information and a lot of misinformation floating around, but I can say knowing the techniques and tactics makes it so much easier.

That being said, all the technique and tactics in the world won't make some of the bumps that can arise easy. I recall encountering one such condition in soft bumps, yes not icy bumps, soft bumps, about three decades ago at Mount Washington on Vancouver Island, (using trail map to refresh memory https://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/Mount-Washington/pistemap ) somewhere above but near the top of Powder Face, skier's left of top of the world shoots. Conditions were such that I was skiing slowly (yes it's true!). All the skiers had been funneled into the same path to avoid a tree well and other obstacles. I found myself stuck between two moguls with near vertical walls. The top of the downhill mogul was above my head by a few feet and uphill mogul was way above that. I could literally touch both of them with outstretched hands. The path I was on dead-ended. I didn't have enough room to turn my skis (215 cm long IIRC) around without using a kick turn.

 

[jimtransition]

The crazy thing about that 2nd Takao video is that there are no bumps. It's just a bump-shaped ditch. Pretty cool.

Japanese bumps are generally just rut lines, the ones here right now are super deep, no way out!

 

[SSSdave]

Will add that have been looking for someone to occasionally do videos with in both bumps and powder to the extent I posted a couple times this season on this board if anyone is interested. And not point of view GoPro wide angle or smartphone wide angle but rather traditional with handheld zoom ski from above, pass, and down. As an old landscape photographer, I know how when where to do it right.

If the season had not abruptly ended, had Denver airfare to meet up with a couple old friends out there and ski Mary Jane 3 days including videos as bought a Triple Play pass.

 

[SSSdave]

So replayed the first video while pausing as I do like watching it closely as like this person, he likes to efficiently bounce from turn to turn that requires this bouncing jumping mindset of body motion control. These parts are similar to my own form and turns.

48 >1:25
2:00>2:15
2:26>2:37
3:04>3:26
3:26>3:38 Most like a lot of my skiing
4:39>4:48
5:41>5:51 Watch how bending he uses weight shifts through his torso to allow what goes on lower.
5:52>6:02 If snow is quite soft mid winter packed powder at the right slope gradient, I'll muck around like this quite a bit.
6:18>3:31 Good slope lighting here for capturing his skiing.
7:15 bump sequences in shadowed flat light
8:48>9:11 Here he's rebounding short turns on a steeper groomed run much as I like.

4:49>5:06 Watch how he subtly counters with his upper torso etc against the lower body. Thus actively working for more dynamic rebound in the turn and does so with a rocking back and forth, left to right, to and fro, over and over, rhythm like bouncing against a canted trampoline. Thus the upper body need not be like some totally quiet, balanced with just lower body swiveling or whatever. Notice at the jumping point in each bouncing turn when his flexed knee suddenly power springs upward and how the counter at top is at the same time synched oppositely. And notice what precedes that each time, an initiation with his same countered side hand that ripples its momentum mass and skelectal leverage change along his body.
---
In the lower comp amazing lower swiveling speed video, watch the rapid right/left arm/hand/pole action that allows again, an upper body countering action that shows in how his coat at his upper chest is making these rapid tiny back and forths while his chest sort of keeps punched out in front.

 

[Tim Hodgson]

Dave I am very interested in your Movement Analysis. I will compare your description with your time and rewatch the Takao video.

In the meantime, have you seen Tom Gellie's public video regarding how he uses his upper torso?


Hopefully others with more time tonight will respond also.

 

[SSSdave]

I'm almost totally ignorant of what is going on in that mogul and instructing world or what videos are available of top skiers. World is changing so fast as an old retired guy, I'm just having fun at this stage. Have never been into ski body mechanics movement analysis beyond a shallow level.

As for that video of getting forward, did watch a bit, interesting and believable. But not watched too carefully as it isn't something I need to understand at that level as I evolved my own balances long ago by feeling internal fedback of what feels properly centered. Trial and error, what works and doesn't.

 

[LiquidFeet]

So replayed the first video while pausing as I do like watching it closely as like this person, he likes to efficiently bounce from turn to turn that requires this bouncing jumping mindset of body motion control. These parts are similar to my own form and turns.

48 >1:25
2:00>2:15
2:26>2:37
3:04>3:26
3:26>3:38 Most like a lot of my skiing
4:39>4:48
5:41>5:51 Watch how bending he uses weight shifts through his torso to allow what goes on lower.
5:52>6:02 If snow is quite soft mid winter packed powder at the right slope gradient, I'll muck around like this quite a bit.
6:18>3:31 Good slope lighting here for capturing his skiing.
7:15 bump sequences in shadowed flat light
8:48>9:11 Here he's rebounding short turns on a steeper groomed run much as I like.

4:49>5:06 Watch how he subtly counters with his upper torso etc against the lower body. Thus actively working for more dynamic rebound in the turn and does so with a rocking back and forth, left to right, to and fro, over and over, rhythm like bouncing against a canted trampoline. Thus the upper body need not be like some totally quiet, balanced with just lower body swiveling or whatever. Notice at the jumping point in each bouncing turn when his flexed knee suddenly power springs upward and how the counter at top is at the same time synched oppositely. And notice what precedes that each time, an initiation with his same countered side hand that ripples its momentum mass and skelectal leverage change along his body.
---
In the lower comp amazing lower swiveling speed video, watch the rapid right/left arm/hand/pole action that allows again, an upper body countering action that shows in how his coat at his upper chest is making these rapid tiny back and forths while his chest sort of keeps punched out in front.

Which video?