to Pole or Not to Pole, that is the question...

[Tony S]

Why do I have this sinking feeling I've had this revelation at least 8 or 10 times before?

On a related note - instructor also said today - "Hey, Monique, look UP when you ski!" Suddenly my skiing got 10000000 times better. I KNOW I've had this revelation at least 30 times.

I know that feeling. The 30 times one.

You guys are looking at this glass-half-empty. The fact that you immediately recognize the thing and know what to do about it is all aces. Wish I could always say the same!

 

[Monique]

You guys are looking at this glass-half-empty. The fact that you immediately recognize the thing and know what to do about it is all aces. Wish I could always say the same!

Yeah, I didn't say "always"

LF is an instructor, and I spend all my ski time with instructors, being instructed. We really should recognize most of the things! This season has been pretty huge for me, though.

 

[LiquidFeet]

I tell my students that the new thing they are working on will slip out of their minds all the time.
Then they'll remember they were supposed to be doing it (DOH!)
I tell them not to feel bad about that, but to pat themselves on the back for remembering.
That's because I pat myself on the back. It's the only way to get better - as an adult.
Conscious competence, baby!

 

[Monique]

I tell my students that the new thing they are working on will slip out of their minds all the time.

What I find is that I'm reminded of things I used to know throughout the season. By the end of the season, I've regained about 75% of what I knew the season before, and added another 25% of new things ...

 

[Kurt]

Kneale's right. Poles help a skier like whiskers help a cat. But they need to be used properly to be a help instead of a hindrance. It's great that you ski without poles. Instructors often teach lessons while taking away the poles, because the focus needs to be on foot/leg work. Having poles in those lessons often gums up the works. You've learned without them, so you did that on your own. But now it's time to take a lesson so you can benefit from what they offer.

Proper timing with poles is essential. It's easy to get the timing wrong. And you need to not swing your arms when you use the poles; you swing the poles from the wrist with the arms quiet. It's easy to start swinging your arms when you first start using poles since we walk and run with swinging arms. Arm swings can really mess up your skiing. Where you hold your hands counts; many people hold them down at their sides, which necessitates an arm swing. Also, it matters how dramatically you touch the tip to the snow and where you plant it relative to your feet. Take a lesson!

Benefits of pole usage?
--better control of the rhythm of your turns (pole swing determines tempo of your turns)
--better movement of upper body down the hill at initiation (planting down the hill helps you avoid moving aft)
--better ability to shorten your turns (flick poles faster for shorter turns; these offer speed control on steeps)
--better propulsion when skating on flats (propel self forward with poles; less fatigue, and you move along faster)
--less chance of running into people in the lift line (use your poles as a brake, dude!)
--easier forward travel when it's your turn to sit on the chair (propel self forward to meet the arriving chair on time)

If budget is an issue, go skiing on a weekday and take a group lesson. Some mountains have night skiing so maybe where you're living in CT you can do this after work. Often group lessons end up pretty empty on weekdays. You might end up with a private lesson for the price of a group.

Good list of pole benefits, and suggestion to take a lesson that includes pole usage. Another benefit of pole usage is in low visibility. Lightly dragging the inside pole offers a sensory input to help compensate for the lack of visual reference. This was first proven to me by going through a drill; on a blue slope make a J turn with your eyes closed (make sure you have someone to spot for you to keep you safe), start with skis straight down the fall line and J turn until you stop. It's an uncomfortable feeling. Now repeat the drill and lightly drag the inside pole perpendicular to your boot; the difference is amazing.

 

[Fuller]

yeah half pipe skiing is not all mountain skiing. I cant think of anything better than 2 poles for going down steeper slopes......can you?

I wonder if anyone realizes that the a duel fought with guns decides that we would use 2 poles and not one pole for alpine.

Tell the story, Josh!

Josh... 3 pages later and still no story! If it's not true at least have the courtesy of making one up. If the dueling angle doesn't work you could always fall back to making up funny sub-titles to the infamous Hitler in the Bunker scene. It's hard not to be funny with that one...

regards,
Sid (your agent, remember me? I didn't think so...)

 

[James]

Make sure they do not drag the inside pole....also make the poles are short enough. the 90 degree bend is elbow is slight to tall and going about 2 inches shorter than 90 degree bend in elbow makes the pole a length that will not cause kids to ski to upright.

Pole length drives me nuts. Most people's poles are 2-4 inches too long. But of course everyone knows that poles are proper length when the elbow is at 90 deg. Moses chiseled that on the stone tablet. Ask yourself when do you ski like that? My answer- when we're in the lift line. So, we're optimizing for a nearly static position?

Kids should have fairly short poles esp at first. They don't use them, and most have trouble rotating their hand at the wrist and pointing the tips backwards. Many have mittens which don't allow an actual grip. Parents want poles to grow into- now they're 6 inches too long. And heavy. Just buy them used every year or rent. Or buy adjustable.
Kids become attached to their overly long poles they got for Christmas. Suggestions to shorten them are like suggestions to feed their pet hamster to a boa constrictor.

The other important element for poles, adult or kid, is they can fit the top of the handle in their palm. Many poles have a huge top of the grip so it can't fit in an eye socket. This makes it impossible to push with palm on top of the grip and pole tips behind your feet, or do a proper bullfighter turn.

This is a pretty big debate, but yes, for those who feel that's the right thing to do, for sure!

Why is pole clacking to alert someone else to your prescence a debate? You feel we should use our words?

 

[Monique]

Pole length drives me nuts. Most people's poles are 2-4 inches too long.

+100

Why is pole clacking to alert someone else to your prescence a debate? You feel we should use our words?

Because it often results in people look around, bewildered, and thus drifting to the side - probably to the side where you were about to be.

I know people who swear by pole clacking and other people who swear that pole clacking is a terrible idea. I tend to think it just isn't that effective.

 

[François Pugh]

My method is to have the ski pole upside down and grab the pole at it's tip, that is what is now above the basket (and would be under the basket if the pole were not upside down). Seems most folk grab the pole on the side of the basket that is nearer to the middle of the pole, and tell me I'm doing it wrong. I prefer to be my own drummer.

 

[James]

My method is to have the ski pole upside down and grab the pole at it's tip, that is what is now above the basket (and would be under the basket if the pole were not upside down). Seems most folk grab the pole on the side of the basket that is nearer to the middle of the pole, and tell me I'm doing it wrong. I prefer to be my own drummer.

Now you're 3 inches too long instead of two.
So, what's the reasoning behind this drum beat? Why the right angle? What does it relate to?

 

[Fuller]

I was thinking about pole length today as I was skiffing about the loose piles of 5" powder we got last night. I'm 6'-0" and using 50" poles, my elbow is at exactly 90 degrees but all of a sudden it seems too long. Thanks a lot Pugski!

ps: Whitefish does not suck this year...

 

[Andy Mink]

I think poles are great for releasing the binding when I’m heading for a beer.

Beat me to it. How else are you going to release your bindings? (See the thread about pole vs stomping with your ski vs boot!)

 

[François Pugh]

Now you're 3 inches too long instead of two.
So, what's the reasoning behind this drum beat? Why the right angle? What does it relate to?

Think again. By selecting a pole with my hand higher than the basket and the pole ending near the top of my hand with my elbow at 90 degrees, instead of holding the pole at a spot lower than the basket when the pole is upside down, and ending up with a pole the full length of the amount of pole past the basket above my hand, I end up with a pole that is 1/2 a hand width shorter.

 

[oldschoolskier]

Pole length debate, I appreciate both sides and that a lot of skiers use shorter poles than I. However when I have to work not to get caught with a long pole by planting, tap, drag or touch in an out rigger form.

HOWEVER, when I on a steep slope and reach forward for a protective plant, I can, you with the short poles are on the short end of the stick .

Using a pole to get maximum push of or poling technique requires long poles, well with short forget it.

So it comes down to a simple preference of what meets your needs and what you are willing to give up. I’ll adjust my technique to match my longer poles vs give up the benefits they provide. 53yrs on the slopes (mostly old school) haven’t failed me yet.

However, what’s right for you is your choice.

As for when start, when you are willing to hold them.

 

[Monique]

HOWEVER, when I on a steep slope and reach forward for a protective plant, I can, you with the short poles are on the short end of the stick .

What's a protective plant?

 

[François Pugh]

What's a protective plant?

I'm not sure, but I bet it looks like this...

 

[James]

Think again. By selecting a pole with my hand higher than the basket and the pole ending near the top of my hand with my elbow at 90 degrees, instead of holding the pole at a spot lower than the basket when the pole is upside down, and ending up with a pole the full length of the amount of pole past the basket above my hand, I end up with a pole that is 1/2 a hand width shorter.

Hah!, yes I see it is shorter.

The question still remains for skiers, where does the right angle arm thing relate to in actual skiing? As far as I can see it's in the lift line. Literally standing in line.

 

[oldschoolskier]

On very steep or narly slopes going slow I do want to reach down and plant solid to initiate forcefully that first or second turn (think of the pole as a pivot point) with long poles I can reach down ahead of my ski tips without getting off balance with short not at all.

Not saying best technique, just saying it’s old school and works extremely well for those that know it. BTW there is a right and wrong way to do it, done wrong and you can get serious hurt.

 

[Josh Matta]

oldschool that make no sense......

Honestly if anything a long pole makes it hard to pivot on during a hop turn because you arms is stronger not bent as much.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Josh it's probably good if you are thinking blocking.