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mdf

entering the Big Couloir
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Some of the difference may be the level of students, and correlated to that how many are habitual lesson takers. The population of skiers gradually educate each other. Eventually you will meet a fellow student who is not shy about stating expectations, or is even pushy about orgainizing tips.
 

at_nyc

Getting off the lift
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If a client was happy with the lesson, but otherwise unaware of tipping culture, how would they know to tip? If they don't tip are they just not a priority for you for repeat lessons?
It's obvious if he's got another repeat client who tipped, he'd given that client the priority. That's only fair.

I will ski with you if assigned to, but I won't go out of my way to work with you again
But given two clients, one a request, which the mountain pays a bit extra. However, knowing that client won't tip, would you prefer to take a chance with the client you've not worked with before, on the chance he might be a better tipper?
 

wallyk

Would rather be ski'n
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The MinnieApple
Love this quote from Steve Martin in my Blue Heaven....................

The last time my daughter had a private, was a 1/2 day at Okemo I gave the young lady a $100, and when my wife gets her 1/2 day private at Break we request the same instructor, and tip her $150.

Why? Because the instructors that I've met generally work hard, seem to love their job, always seem to have/maintain a positive/enthusiastic attitude, and clearly take what I feel is a small percentage of the fee compared to what the mountain management company gets.

Maybe I'm wrong, in that assumption, I mean the instructors are being compensated for their work, but while I see the smile on my daughter or wife's face and listen to each of them talk about their day and time with the instructor it makes me feel better knowing that by tipping I was able to help make somebody else's day a little better.

upload_2018-2-11_11-22-49.jpeg
 

Kbat117

Doing snow dances
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Utah
Wow!! Wish I was an Instructor at some of these other resorts!

I'm a ski instructor at a tiny hill in northern Utah called Nordic Valley. Our instructors typically only get tipped about half the time and even then, it tends to be pretty small tips ranging from $10-$20 out of a typical 2 hour group lesson. Occasionally some people get lucky and get something over $30 but that's pretty rare.

It would be nice if the tips were more, we don't get paid much to begin with.

And it's not that our instructors suck, we are actually pretty famous in Utah for our ski school. But 90% of our customers are new skiers and I feel like the idea of tipping a instructor is still largely unknown among most of our customers.
 

Tricia

The Velvet Hammer
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This is the kind of thing I decided I wasn't comfortable doing. It feels unprofessional and I'd like to think I'm better than that. It also didn't work very well. A better version, which I don't use anymore, was when asked about the off season was to say that I use my tip money to finance a cool trip.
Similar to the comment that @Philpug and I may have been heard saying while we worked at True North. If engaged into a conversation with a bootfit client, about having a great job at the resort or some other such thing...
"Yes, the pay is less than average, but the tips and working on the mountain make it worthwhile"

I don't like the "guilt to tip" concept, but I do think that there are some people who have no idea what resort employees make and that gratuities are helpful.

On the other hand, in other areas of service, I'm a little annoyed when a gratuity is automatically added to a bill, especially when the service is sub par.
I remember one time when @bbinder and @margaritamarcia were with us at Snowmass when we were given horrible service at a restaurant but the 20% gratuity was automatically added to the check. Bbinder and I just sat back and let Marcia and Phil handle the situation, which they did quite well. ;)
 
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Monique

bounceswoosh
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This thread spurred some thoughts for me, and I'm going to start tipping my regular instructors $20/day rather than $10. It does actually add up as I'm talking 20-30 days a season. Maybe I've been undertipping; maybe I'm still undertipping, dunno. But it's a change I feel comfortable with (and I won't have to scramble to find appropriate denominations).
 

Mikey

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Decided to post my comment anyway.

Their is a lot of tip by guilt or intimidation going on from my observation. I tip, begrudgingly, because I know certain folks are relying on tips/subsidies. I'll even adjust my tip/subsidy if I am a situation where the person is counting on a contribution by a group of folks and instead I am the only customer.

Recently, went up to the Karst Stage counter at Bozeman airport and asked if they could take me down to another stop (1 mile away from original dropoff) that was listed as one of their official dropoff points. Got a bit of an attitude, but then was *reminded* that the gratuity was not included in the price of the shuttle fare. Gratuity..tip.. something, I feel should be given for exceptional service. I guess a person getting paid as his /her job to deliver me to my destination safe and sound is now exceptional? Of course not, I am being intimidated into subsidizing their low wage.

In Hawaii recently, I was forced to use the Hotel parking garage and their valet service (can't park your own car). On the customer pickup ticket was the words, "Gratuity not included in the parking rate" of 35 dollars per day. Room service had added 21% Service Charge, then a deliver charge, then a reminder that "Gratuity not included" What? Many many other examples.

Growing up, I never got, nor expected tips. As a young trim carpenter, entrusted to make the inside of customers custom homes beautiful, I never even got a cold or hot drink from a customer. Never thought about it. I was paid lower than average for the work I was doing and just had some personal satisfaction with doing a good job.

It'll continue to be a sore point for many. Some are happy to hand over money and feel good about it. Great service for no other reason than personal satisfaction is very rare, but when it happens, I always make a point to call that out to the person and to management. In my day and even to this day, having some recognize my hard work with a simple thank you and sincere appreciation was all I needed (wasn't even expected).

Now...freakin tip jars everywhere. Everyone wants a piece of the action. Americans have exported this nasty habit to Thailand quite successfully. There is not one place that does not have a tip jar. I'm talking even banks and hospitals. It is ridiculous.

I think the tipping culture won't change and personal economics won't change until the people tipping just get fed up and stop the madness. When that happens, there will be a domino effect. Early adopters will be hated and called cheap.
 
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DavidSkis

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Growing up, I never got, nor expected tips. As a young trim carpenter, entrusted to make the inside of customers custom homes beautiful, I never even got a cold or hot drink from a customer. Never thought about it. I was paid lower than average for the work I was doing and just had some personal satisfaction with doing a good job.
It must have been nice to grow up in an era of plenty, when houses cost a quarter of today's costs, and instructor pay was 5-10x what it is today after accounting for inflation.

I could appreciate why people from that background feel the way they do. But like it or not, times change, instructors are poor now, and the resorts have implicitly shifted the salary costs into tip form. If you want in on the game, you have to bring your marbles. Otherwise that instructor who gave you their all may end up eating cracker sandwiches for lunch tomorrow.

(I say this as an instructor with a volunteer-run club. I don't make any money, tips or otherwise. It simply wasn't worth it for me to work at a for-pay ski school.)
 
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mdf

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implicitly shifted the salary costs into tip form

There's the rub. I hate tipping in the abstract, but that is the way the system works now. I'm not going to take it out on those for whom it is an implicit part of their wages.

But I hate the San Francisco "living wage" surcharge even more. Just own it and raise your freaking prices! Nobody adds a "landlord raised our rent" surcharge.
 

at_nyc

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But I hate the San Francisco "living wage" surcharge even more. Just own it and raise your freaking prices! Nobody adds a "landlord raised our rent" surcharge.
That's not quite true. Airlines charges "fuel surcharge". Trucking company too.
 

Mikey

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It must have been nice to grow up in an era of plenty, when houses cost a quarter of today's costs, and instructor pay was 5-10x what it is today after accounting for inflation.

I could appreciate why people from that background feel the way they do. But like it or not, times change, instructors are poor now, and the resorts have implicitly shifted the salary costs into tip form. If you want in on the game, you have to bring your marbles. Otherwise that instructor who gave you their all may end up eating cracker sandwiches for lunch tomorrow.

(I say this as an instructor with a volunteer-run club. I don't make any money, tips or otherwise. It simply wasn't worth it for me to work at a for-pay ski school.)

Era of plenty? As a kid all the way up to my 30's, I never saw any of that "plenty" although can't speak for Ski Instructors during that time. Man, talking about plenty, I see kids running around with 700 dollar iPhones and wearing all the latest fashions. I had to beg my parents to stop buying me those damn Sears ToughSkins and remember mowing lawns and collecting bottles to buy my own first pair of Levi's all the cool kids at school were wearing.

:)
 

Philpug

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On the other hand, in other areas of service, I'm a little annoyed when a gratuity is automatically added to a bill, especially when the service is sub par.
I remember one time when @bbinder and @margaritamarcia were with us at Snowmass when we were given horrible service at a restaurant but the 20% gratuity was automatically added to the check. Bbinder and I just sat back and let Marcia and Phil handle the situation, which they did quite well. ;)
I forgot about that night.
 

surfsnowgirl

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Magic Mountain, Vermont
I never tip when I order take out or fast food and there's a tip jar there. However, if there's table service and a server who handles the order from inception to when we're done then I tip but it's truly based on service. I know things happen out of control of the server but I generally have a sliding scale for tipping based upon the meal and how things went. I used to be a server and I was a damn good one and I expect the same when I eat out and I tip accordingly. Saturday was a good tip day for me when I was instructing but that doesn't always happen so I'll take it when it comes. Instructing has been an eye opener for me because I realize tips don't always happen so whenever I take a lesson, I always tip because I know what we get paid and how much I appreciate tips so I do my best to return the courtesy.
 
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TPJ

Like PBJ, but not as ubiquitous!
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I've worked lots of hard nasty jobs in my life that I didn't get paid well for, none of them involved tipping. I worked as a line cook in some nice restaurants for many years and know the difference between a good server and a bad one. When I was cooking for a living I never made more than $12/hr in spite of being a skilled worker and there were no tips for me. There could even be complaints from the guests if I prepared a dish well and it died under the lights because the wait staff didn't pick it up on time or took the wrong plate. I like tipping and hate it at the same time. I like it when someone is happy to give me something extra because I met or exceeded their expectations. I don't like that I actually need that bump to make my day pay off. I would rather be paid more from my employer who makes a much higher margin on me than I ever made on any person who ever worked on my payroll. I also tip based on service in restaurants after working in the industry. I absolutely hate having a tip added to my meal by the management. When it happens I refuse to pay it. Tips are voluntary and I will determine the rate at which I am tipping. A tip which is automatically added to a bill at a rate set by the establishment is a tax and not a gratuity at all. My wife used to get mad at me over my attitude on this and beg to not be a dick, now she might be worse than me about it :roflmao:. For example last night we went to meet a friend for his birthday at a bar in Teton Village. When we were walking up the steps there was a sign announcing that it was Polka night and there were beer and pretzel specials. We were easier than our friends and grabbed a table, I noted the time. 15 minutes later we hadn't been acknowledged so my wife got up and chased down a waiter. I asked him about the specials, he told me there were none. I told him I saw a sign over the bar that seemed to have drink specials on it, he left and went to check it out. Turns out there were two drink specials. Then I asked him about the pretzel special... Oh Yea pretzels are $2. I ordered a pretzel and a stein of beer. My wife ordered a burger and fries. When our friends came they were told that for $5 you could get a pint of beer and a pretzel. I asked if I got that deal and was told no because you got a stein and not a pint. Crap... I just paid $10 for 1 stein and one pretzel when I could have had 2 pints and two pretzels for the same price... Great job with the specials buddy. My wife burger came and there were no fries with it. It did have a salad which she didn't order which was ala carte and added to the bill. Our service sucked and he didn't get a tip from my wife who paid the bill. I would have tipped him, but it would have been a very small tip just so he knew that I knew. There were about 12 people in and out of that table over the night and none of us thought he was any good at his job. The place wasn't that busy. My wife is a good tipper and if he didn't suck he would have easily gotten 20%. I feel the same way about tips that people give me. Tip me what it was worth to you. If you didn't have a great day skiing with me don't tip at all. I work really hard out of a sense of professionalism and will work just as hard even if I know there is no tip in it for me. I play a longer game than any single lesson and it more than averages out for me. I have done a lot of extra work for little or no money in my other jobs, including doing things that strictly speaking weren't my job. This work ethic pays out in the end even if the results aren't immediately obvious. I am very good at my trade and a few others. My phone rings a lot for work and I get to be self employed. Now that I am self employed and in demand I get to set my rate and close to 100% of the people I work for are stoked to pay it. I have even gotten tipped on occasion if you call being paid more than the amount on the invoice a tip. :yahoo:
 

givethepigeye

Really, just Rob will do
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Era of plenty? As a kid all the way up to my 30's, I never saw any of that "plenty" although can't speak for Ski Instructors during that time. Man, talking about plenty, I see kids running around with 700 dollar iPhones and wearing all the latest fashions. I had to beg my parents to stop buying me those damn Sears ToughSkins and remember mowing lawns and collecting bottles to buy my own first pair of Levi's all the cool kids at school were wearing.

:)

^ I swear this isn't my alias - as I had the ToughSkins in the "husky" size and sold greeting cards door to door
 

PhillyGuy

Booting up
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Philadelphia
I’m a bit torn about tipping for lessons in general. When you are paying $160 a day for lift ticket and another $160 for a full day group lessons, you are already spending $320 for a day. That’s a lot you are paying the resort for about 6 hours of skiing.

I think a great lesson is expected for that much money. And in general I find most resorts are willing to guarantee a great lesson.

I’ve taken over 20 group lessons. And they are all great, expect for two where I felt I was in the wrong group and the pace wasn’t right. In both cases, the resorts offered me a free lesson the next day.

I didn’t even know people tipped for lessons when I started. But now that I know, I have tipped a few ski pros that gave me a great skiing experience. I’m still unclear on the amount but I’ve been tipping $20 for a full day group lesson if we achieved the goals we discussed at the beginning of the day (usually the ski pros would ask for goals, type of runs or terrains, pace).

At some mountains, like aspen it’s not uncommon to have a ski pro to yourself for a group lesson since everyone takes private. In that situation, Im just not sure what to tip. My instructor was great, I learned a lot and we did bumps all day until the last chair. I tipped him $40. It’s prob low by private standard.
 

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