Tipping the skis. Ah yes, where to start?

[karlo]

Femur rotating in hip socket is different than rotating your hips. The thigh/lower leg/feet/ankles all move laterally. Your femur will rotate as you tip your fee/ankles.

Ok. Next time I do rr tracks, and am thinking feet and ankles to tip, I’ll pay attention to what’s happening to the rest of the leg

 

[Tony S]

In instructor training a couple weeks ago, the trainer asked us to do rr tracks. Sure enough, to finely control gradual edging, I need to start with feet and ankles. I pointed out to our trainer that this isn’t normal, rr tracks.

Says who?

Okay, not in every circumstance, for sure, but normal enough on groomers, eh?

 

[JESinstr]

Karlo, are you really thinking about everything you wrote when you are tipping your skis? It seems like quite a bit.

I have always been taught that tipping movements start at feet/ankles. Yes, feet/ankles tip but after a clinic with Josh Fogg last year and at his suggestion, I started thinking about moving the leg laterally from thigh down. If you do that, the feet and ankles tip. It seems to allow for a broader spectrum of edge angles and allows fine tuning of “how much edge”.

Good point Nancy. It got me thinking. The act of putting the ski on edge is pretty basic and fool proof. And although at advanced levels it might make a difference, I wonder how much the kinetic chain sequence really matters for most skiers.

In an earlier thread, @Mike King wrote about whether you think about pressing the edges down into the surface or lifting them up. With the skiers I worked with on this, just the simple focus of lifting the edges made a marked difference.

 

[Josh Matta]

Yeah to karlo any good rr track starts with foot tipping....... how else would you start it?

 

[karlo]

Says who?

Okay, not in every circumstance, for sure, but normal enough on groomers, eh?

I have a feeling you like to ski fast. Me, I’m a slow skier.

whether you think about pressing the edges down into the surface or lifting them up

That’s interesting. Rolling the edge from down to up. But, then, if the focus is on the up edge, can one relate that to slicing snow? I think I would have trouble doing that.

 

[Nancy Hummel]

Good point Nancy. It got me thinking. The act of putting the ski on edge is pretty basic and fool proof. And although at advanced levels it might make a difference, I wonder how much the kinetic chain sequence really matters for most skiers.

In an earlier thread, @Mike King wrote about whether you think about pressing the edges down into the surface or lifting them up. With the skiers I worked with on this, just the simple focus of lifting the edges made a marked difference.

I think that different external cues work for different people. I can tip my feet and ankles without my upper leg moving very much but if my think about the movement starting at the thigh, it feels like I have the ability to move it more and it also takes my center in the direction of the new turn. I think about lifting the edges up. I don't like to think about "pressing" anything. Works better for me.

 

[karlo]

I can tip my feet and ankles without my upper leg moving very much but if my think about the movement starting at the thigh, it feels like I have the ability to move it more

I have to try that. But, won't be on snow for almost a month

 

[Mike King]

@karlo, clinics are good, but if you want to really improve your skiing, understanding of biomechanics and physics, ma, and teaching, there’s nothing better than individual coaching. I have had Schanzy as my primary coach for 7 or 8 years. That means hard work and paying. Well worth it.

I also have coaching from other demo team members and E3 examiners. Expert skiing, and the level 3 standard, is about versatility.

Mike

 

[LiquidFeet]

....movement thigh down is a hip rotation, but the mental focus is on what the thigh is doing, right?

Just in case this has not yet been clarified, "Hip Rotation" usually refers to one of three things:

--Skier is stiffly skiing "square" to skis; hips, torso, shoulders, knees, toes, all turn as a unit; body points the way the skis point. There is no upper body-lower body separation. This rigidity tends to limit one's options for precision control of line and radius.

--Skier is causing the skis to turn by rotating the hips in the direction of the intended turn. Skier is using "Upper Body Rotation" to drag the skis around. This is a very powerful move that overcomes the difficulties of skiing aft, so it's a favorite of novices, and a problem because it's overkill. It deletes the possibility of precision control. Skier may do this inadvertently because of swinging the arms with pole plants. It can be used as a tactic when missing a turn's timing is not an option.

--Skier is "Following the Skis," meaning the skis turn first ahead of the hips and torso (so upper body-lower body separation is happening), but during the second half of the turn skier squares up by rotating the hips to match the skis. Initiation happens with skier's upper body and hips square to skis. The loss of separation (counter) at the end of the turn limits options for precision control of line and radius.

 

[karlo]

@karlo, clinics are good, but if you want to really improve your skiing, understanding of biomechanics and physics, ma, and teaching, there’s nothing better than individual coaching. I have had Schanzy as my primary coach for 7 or 8 years. That means hard work and paying. Well worth it.

I also have coaching from other demo team members and E3 examiners. Expert skiing, and the level 3 standard, is about versatility.

Mike

You have so many opportunities out West. Who's in the East?

 

[karlo]

Just in case this has not yet been clarified, "Hip Rotation" usually refers to one of three things:

Right, I get that now. My vocabulary is so poor. By hip rotation, I meant rotation of the femur in the hip socket. I guess hip rotation means pelvis rotation.

 

[Bad Bob]

15% is standard unless they give you very good service.

 

[markojp]

You have so many opportunities out West. Who's in the East?

Some guy named Josh who shows up here once in awhile if he hasn't relocated west.

 

[karlo]

Some guy named Josh who shows up here once in awhile if he hasn't relocated west.

 

[James]

Even doing crab "turns" works on tipping. You're flattening one ski at a time and can feel the effect in a non consequence environment. Try it switch too, it's oddly satisfying and maybe even easier.
Release is the key to skiing.

 

[Josh Matta]

Some guy named Josh who shows up here once in awhile if he hasn't relocated west.

I feel bad, I went on a last minute powder vacation to quebec last year, when Karlo was in stowe

 

[karlo]

I feel bad, I went on a last minute powder vacation to quebec last year, when Karlo was in stowe

He's such a liar. The feeling bad part.

 

[karlo]

Release is the key to skiing.

I think that is so right. In fluid turns, it's not like we go to the flat of our skis, then stop, then initiate tipping to the other edge. Tipping starts at the release of the previous turn. What are you thinking, in terms of body movement or action, to tip, I.e., to start that release towards flattening, then getting into the other edge?

 

[Mike King]

I think that is so right. In fluid turns, it's not like we go to the flat of our skis, then stop, then initiate tipping to the other edge. Tipping starts at the release of the previous turn. What are you thinking, in terms of body movement or action, to tip, I.e., to start that release towards flattening, then getting into the other edge?

Pulling the new outside foot under me and untipping the lower leg. There's often a misunderstanding of where you need maximum edge -- many folk think it is in late shaping into the beginning of the finish, but if you simply traverse across the hill, it is clear you do not need much edge in the finish of the turn. So, you need to get the lower legs untapped, and that should happen from the apex of the turn through to edge change.

I'm currently working on delaying edge change. As I pull the feet back under my body, I wait until they change edges by themselves. It's an explosive action -- quite amazing, and it allows the outside foot to travel quite a ways away from the body.

Mike

 

[Mike King]

You have so many opportunities out West. Who's in the East?

I hear there are examiners in PSIA-Eastern. There's also the Boyd's in NH, Brian Smith in NY (some of the year), Mermer Bleakesley also in NY, and folk from the clinics that you've attended that resonated with you. And that guy Josh.

Mike