Tipping Ski Instructors?

[raytseng]

At Big Sky and Maine Adaptive the adaptive instructors are not permitted to take tips (we tried), but they are at Winter Park....so confusing. I always ask now if tips are permitted and the places that do not allow tips we donate to the organization.

Yea this is often the same with mtn hosts I've done doing free tours, but I suppose it depends if the guide was a paid instructor or a true volunteer. It changes the dynamic if the person is getting paid or no pay. When a tip morphs into donation they still collected the money though so you didnt need to hassle, but wouldn't be sly about the handoff, they will announce thank you this goes to the patrol dogs or to the particular charity they are supporting, and give a patch or pin or something back as a memento

 

[lisamamot]

Yea this is often the same with mtn hosts I've done doing free tours, but I suppose it depends if the guide was a paid instructor or a true volunteer. It changes the dynamic if the person is getting paid or no pay. When a tip morphs into donation they still collected the money though so you didnt need to hassle, but wouldn't be sly about the handoff, they will announce thank you this goes to the patrol dogs or to the particular charity they are supporting, and give a patch or pin or something back as a memento

At Maine Adaptive we gave it to the front desk after the instructor said they are volunteers and don’t accept tips; my son then received a letter in the mail from Maine Adaptive thanking him and detailing the amount of the donation. Clearly went to the organization in their case!

 

[Steve]

The most common tip I get is a $20 for a 1 hour private lesson which costs $95.
As others have said though, if someone gave me $5 I'd be happy. Many people don't tip at all.

Today I extended a kid I've been teaching for years to about an hour and ¾ for free because I was available and they're going on vacation to a bigger mountain and I wanted to help get him ready. The mother tipped me $40. I said "you don't have to do that." That was nice.

 

[ThomasH]

I just had a week’s worth of private lessons and I tipped 30% of the total lesson cost because my instructor was awesome and I learned so much more than expected and will continue to see him.

Just to contrast, yesterday I taught 6 people in 4 lessons. Using your formula I should have been tipped at least $120, tops $160. I actually got $15. On Saturday I did another 4 lessons which totaled $40.
Everyone was happy with the lessons and thanked me profusely.

 

[Mike King]

This really isn't a standard yet, so its not expected. Contrast with a food server where if you don't tip in the US you've broken etiquette.

Really just tip based on your financial means and your experience or your improvement. if you feel you got a 20% better experience than you expected(e.g. a surprise private, or something clicked for you) than tip $20 or some amount that feels right to you. If you feel it's too much it's too much, if you feel it's too little it's too little.

Even if you just tip a $5 its still appreciated. if you're tipping with coins though, maybe that crosses the line.

Well, I suspect you are not a ski instructor, nor do you understand the economics of ski instruction. I don't teach for the money, but I do respect those who have invested heavily personally and foregone alternative employment to share their passion for the sport with their guests. While most instructors don't expect a tip, the reality of pay is that instructors rely on tip income to not only cover the cost of their craft (certifications, training that results both in direct expenses for clinics as well as foregone income, equipment, etc.). The sad fact is that resorts do not pay a living wage, and even in Aspen, where pay is the highest in North America, it is exceedingly difficult for a professional instructor to make ends meet on what they earn from teaching, and that includes substantial tip income. Were instructors to rely solely on what the resort pays, they would be living off of food stamps and sleeping in a hovel. Well, many do that even with tip income.

So, while I personally think the tipping economy is unfair and should be eliminated, the reality of the situation is that your ski instructor depends on tip income to pay the bills. So, don't hide behind statements like "it isn't a standard." It is. Vail even puts a tip line on the credit card receipt to elicit tips to support their ski instructors.

Mike

 

[HardDaysNight]

Vail would have a great deal more effect if they supported their ski instructors by paying them a reasonable wage instead of gouging their clients and then expecting them to subsidize their instructors by “eliciting” tips so that the poor buggers don’t starve. It’s also gutless for instructors as a group to permit themselves to be exploited in this outrageous way - however much they might want to share their passion. Perhaps they should stop sharing and start standing up for themselves.

 

[Ken_R]

Vail would have a great deal more effect if they supported their ski instructors by paying them a reasonable wage instead of gouging their clients and then expecting them to subsidize their instructors by “eliciting” tips so that the poor buggers don’t starve. It’s also gutless for instructors as a group to permit themselves to be exploited in this outrageous way - however much they might want to share their passion. Perhaps they should stop sharing and start standing up for themselves.

This ^

I guess if Vail charged MUCH less for ski instruction and paid the ski instructors better all this wouldnt be and issue. Currently the situation is just screwed up. I am sorry but I will not support the ski resort ski school system as it stands (some independent ski resorts are not part of this) Nothing against the instructors obviously.

 

[BC.]

Just curious, do you guys tip your kids teachers, basketball, baseball, soccer, lacrosse coaches, etc., after every practice? They don’t get paid much and are most likely volunteering/not getting paid at all...They would probably appreciate a tip as well.

 

[Bendu]

if you are a great instructor you may very well pick out which lesson you will teach based on tip in the case of potential overlapping booking. Despite the prices good stewards of this sport can and will remain busy, busy enough that can be booked multiple times during peaks.

 

[Solus]

Just curious, do you guys tip your kids teachers, basketball, baseball, soccer, lacrosse coaches, etc., after every practice? They don’t get paid much and are most likely volunteering/not getting paid at all...They would probably appreciate a tip as well.

For coaches and teachers with ongoing relationship we usually collect for a gift at the end of the season.

 

[markojp]

I greatly appreciate any and all tips. They do help and do matter.

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

I was a teacher for 30 years and despite what you might read in the papers, teachers are paid much better than ski instructors and the benefits and retirement are excellent. I'm not suggesting that teachers aren't worth more than they receive now; I'm just suggesting that it is a comparison of apples and oranges. There is no doubt that resorts should be paying their instructors MUCH more than they do now. In the meantime, tip appropriately and show your appreciation.

 

[raytseng]

Well, I suspect you are not a ski instructor, nor do you understand the economics of ski instruction. I don't teach for the money, but I do respect those who have invested heavily personally and foregone alternative employment to share their passion for the sport with their guests. While most instructors don't expect a tip, the reality of pay is that instructors rely on tip income to not only cover the cost of their craft (certifications, training that results both in direct expenses for clinics as well as foregone income, equipment, etc.). The sad fact is that resorts do not pay a living wage, and even in Aspen, where pay is the highest in North America, it is exceedingly difficult for a professional instructor to make ends meet on what they earn from teaching, and that includes substantial tip income. Were instructors to rely solely on what the resort pays, they would be living off of food stamps and sleeping in a hovel. Well, many do that even with tip income.

So, while I personally think the tipping economy is unfair and should be eliminated, the reality of the situation is that your ski instructor depends on tip income to pay the bills. So, don't hide behind statements like "it isn't a standard." It is. Vail even puts a tip line on the credit card receipt to elicit tips to support their ski instructors.

Mike

I do understand the economics, I get it; but your gripe doesn't conflict with my advice.
On one hand you're saying instructors in general "don't expect a tip", but on the other you are saying the exact opposite. It seems like you are feeling that tips should be mandatory, and a guest should be tipping you the 20% even when they feel they got an OK, below average or shitty lesson; no matter what.

As far as the hiding behind words; I feel the instructors are also doing the same hiding behind words: using the phrases "not expected, but greatly appreciated" or similar. I get you might be hamstrung out of fear of reprisal and have to repeat the corporate policy.
But if you feel it should be mandatory, just come out and say you rich people should all be tipping no matter what; rather than trying to have it both ways.

P.S. I don't understand why you needed to use that I'm not a ski instructor, therefore I do not understand and therefore the rest of my words are worthless, I'll chalk it up to you just being heated about the topic, an ad hominem attack is pretty weaksauce. I'll leave it at that and won't mention it again. Your gripe is not with me...

 

[jzmtl]

I'll be honest, the talk of tipping instructors (ever since I joined epic) is partly what scared me away from lessons. $150~250 an hour (plus 15% tax) is already more than I can afford, 30% on top of that is just insane. I could just not tip, but after knowing about it, it's just easier to avoid the entire thing altogether. Ignorance is bliss I guess.

 

[ADKmel]

I'll be honest, the talk of tipping instructors (ever since I joined epic) is partly what scared me away from lessons. $150~250 an hour (plus 15% tax) is already more than I can afford, 30% on top of that is just insane. I could just not tip, but after knowing about it, it's just easier to avoid the entire thing altogether. Ignorance is bliss I guess.

Well that's a shame. Instructors LOVE To help people Ski/board better. I don't know any instructors that teach for the $$. Tipping is not mandatory and should not deter you from taking a lesson to ski better!

@raytseng Not sure what you do for a living but your comments to me are way out there and no you don't get it.
"As far as the hiding behind words; I feel the instructors are also doing the same hiding behind words: using the phrases "not expected, but greatly appreciated" or similar. I get you might be hamstrung out of fear of reprisal and have to repeat the corporate policy.
But if you feel it should be mandatory, just come out and say you rich people should all be tipping no matter what; rather than trying to have it both ways."

It makes me wonder if you are that cheap guy at restaurants, leaving 50cents because you Know they get a paycheck ? Clearly you have no concept of ski instructors PASSION for teaching vs Making a buck and you've never been in a "people/customer service job"

Fear of Corporate policy? YES Some places Do Not Allow tipping.
"you Rich people" ???? Having it both ways" WTH??
Typically by me, it's the POOR Guy that tips the most! the Rich guy expects a miracle worker in a 1-2hr lesson and rudly walks off without even a thank you.

Tips are often a beer at the end of the day. Buying us lunch, a cup of soup, A handmade card from a grateful student. A grandparent who brings their grandchild and sees this child 'learn to ski' The smiles, hugs and gratitude are more than any dollar amount!
Getting students to ski in control, have fun, be safe and WANTING TO COME BACK IS the BEST TIP EVER.
Having a student request you for additional lessons is very rewarding.

Being APPRECIATED Is what Tipping is all about. And No somepeople don't appreciate the years of skiing, continuing education, the amount of time and $$ Good instructors put in to be good. It doesn't happen without dedication from the instructor.

PS Members of PSIA do get some serious good perks from sponsors for our Hundreds of dollars in DUES and Continuing Education and time working with other instructors to stay current.

 

[Steve]

I do know Instructors who work for the money. In Western Mass, a job where you can make $15 or more dollars an hour for a few months in the Winter is desirable. I know two hard working women in particular who rely on the money. It's a job. Not that they don't love skiing and teaching, but unlike me, they're doing it because they need the money.

 

[Bendu]

Lots of people teach for the money. With that said the people who get the best tips are those that are passionate about the sport and knowledgeable to the point that teaching skiing is just a casual affair as they work their magic. You can only fake incompetence to guest until they find someone competent. For me to want to ski with a student again during a busy period tipping is very much mandatory, I simply will move lesson out of the way and claim I am not available to those that do not tip.

At the cheap Chinese and Thai restaurant's in town I sometime will tip 50 percent on 8-10 dollar bills. The workers catch on eventually and will skip other newer or non-tipping customer to take better care of you.

 

[Mike King]

I do understand the economics, I get it; but your gripe doesn't conflict with my advice.
On one hand you're saying instructors in general "don't expect a tip", but on the other you are saying the exact opposite. It seems like you are feeling that tips should be mandatory, and a guest should be tipping you the 20% even when they feel they got an OK, below average or shitty lesson; no matter what.

As far as the hiding behind words; I feel the instructors are also doing the same hiding behind words: using the phrases "not expected, but greatly appreciated" or similar. I get you might be hamstrung out of fear of reprisal and have to repeat the corporate policy.
But if you feel it should be mandatory, just come out and say you rich people should all be tipping no matter what; rather than trying to have it both ways.

P.S. I don't understand why you needed to use that I'm not a ski instructor, therefore I do not understand and therefore the rest of my words are worthless, I'll chalk it up to you just being heated about the topic, an ad hominem attack is pretty weaksauce. I'll leave it at that and won't mention it again. Your gripe is not with me...

No doubt that the quality of the lesson should affect the tip, just as quality of restaurant service and food should affect the tip.

Mike

 

[Lauren]

I'm going to throw my two cents in on this one.

When I tip (with the exception of food service), I don't consider the amount of money the person is making. I don't tip to supplement their salary, just as I don't tip less if I suspect the person is getting paid a really good wage. I tip based on the service I received, if I feel like the instructor/guide/etc. went above and beyond, and how they contributed to my experience. I also rarely tip as a percentage of the service when it comes to ski services. I don't think a ski instructor that works at Vail should necessarily make a better tip than an equal instructor at Shawnee Peak solely because Vail's lesson price is higher.

The food industry is eff-ed up in the fact that tips are taken into account as part of the workers hourly pay (in most states)....but that's for another discussion (and not one for a ski forum).

I'll be honest, the talk of tipping instructors (ever since I joined epic) is partly what scared me away from lessons. $150~250 an hour (plus 15% tax) is already more than I can afford, 30% on top of that is just insane. I could just not tip, but after knowing about it, it's just easier to avoid the entire thing altogether. Ignorance is bliss I guess.

Honestly, after reading through this thread, I can see how some of the comments would put you in this mindset. Keep things like @ADKmel's comment in mind if tipping is ever your reason for not taking a lesson. There are a lot of instructors out there that appreciate the appreciation...regardless of the form it takes.

Tips are often a beer at the end of the day. Buying us lunch, a cup of soup, A handmade card from a grateful student. A grandparent who brings their grandchild and sees this child 'learn to ski' The smiles, hugs and gratitude are more than any dollar amount!
Getting students to ski in control, have fun, be safe and WANTING TO COME BACK IS the BEST TIP EVER.
Having a student request you for additional lessons is very rewarding.

 

[markojp]

No need for argument and rancor. IMHO, tips are a good thing. I also understand that feeling obliged to tip can make it unaffordable to many on the economic cusp who want to participate in the sport. I'm incredibly fortunate to be on the upper end of the pay scale, and do usually receive tips. Those tips I'll pass on to a fellow instructor who's taking my kiddo out while I work. If there's more, it goes in the bank or helps pay daily expenses, PSIA membership dues, event fees, etc needed to stay current and more importantly, relevant. If you're not learning and working to improve your craft, you're dying. Again, just IMHO.