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JohnL

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Reasonable people with decent skills wouldn’t have gotten into this situation. Don’t apply reason, I can give you 100s of examples of the owners’ cluelessness and arrogance, but this thread is 17 pages already....

At this point, they are a gambler in hoc hoping that the next roll of the dice comes up very big.

The only thing that separates them from the villagers and the low end locals is that they own a ski area and the others don’t.

I could be very wrong, but this mess seems likely to drag out for years. There will like be 1-2 busy weekends this year after big storms. That may be enough to keep them afloat. Meanwhile, it appears the utility customers have been ripped off and I doubt the customers will get their money back. And the Valley economy drifts by, with possibly some foreclosures and bankruptcies.
 

raisingarizona

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Well sure, the most powerful places are naturally going to last longer than those that are struggling but we are literally watching the fall of many due to climate change. It’s a crazy and interesting time to be alive.
 

pipestem

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The affects of climate change are becoming more and more evident. How much longer will the most vulnerable ski areas last? Will it really make any sense to try and run a ski resort in the south east in another 10, 20 years? I doubt it.

That's the thing. Climate-wise, this should be one of if not the least vulnerable ski area south of New York, maybe Vermont. Frustrating.
 

Johnfmh

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I could be very wrong, but this mess seems likely to drag out for years.

John, I agree with everything you have said except this line. How can they keep going without positive cash flow, especially with all their debts, tax, and legal problems? Last season was short but the resort was going fairly strong during the long weekends. With rain in the forecast tomorrow and seemingly no money to make snow once cold weather returns, how can this Potemkin village open again for MLK? More importantly, who would be dumb enough at this point to plan a trip there, unless the intention is to ski elsewhere, CV or WG.

As for global warming, it’s an issue. Timberline has not focused enough on improving snowmaking capacity over the years and it has caused major problems during certain seasons—last season in particular. To surivive and thrive, they have to have the capacity and financial resources to make snow whenever temperatures and humidity levels allow it. With that said, having a mountain west of the Eastern Continental Divide, at an elevation between 3,000 and 4,000 feet, with mostly north facing slopes at a driving distance of less than three hours from DC is a rare unicorn indeed. Anyone with a handful of brain cells and decent capitalization should easily be able to make this ski hill financially viable.
 

JohnL

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John, I agree with everything you have said except this line. How can they keep going without positive cash flow, especially with all their debts, tax, and legal problems? Last season was short but the resort was going fairly strong during the long weekends. With rain in the forecast tomorrow and seemingly no money to make snow once cold weather returns, how can this Potemkin village open again for MLK? More importantly, who would be dumb enough at this point to plan a trip there, unless the intention is to ski elsewhere, CV or WG.

John, scary thing is a lot of the customer base does not follow PugSki, Timber-Lies and even DCSki (what's left of the T-Line posts.) They get their info from the T-Line web site and FB page. And their web-cam. :cool: The FB page is heavily censored of negative comments and the website (and webcam) have lacked timely info for years. So, I think a lot of people don't know the state of the area this year (and have learned to not expect much from the web presence.)

All it takes is a couple of good storms, and they'll attract a lot of people. Though, the January forecast is looking dismal for the Mid-Atlantic. :(

My gut reaction is that they still won't pay their bills and they'll dare the state, CVPSC, creditors, etc. to do something about it. They've gotten away with it in the past.

And look for some sort of local boosters to rally in support of Timberline to keep local tourism afloat. Some local critics are already getting hounded...

Things are clearly worse than they've been in the past, but they somehow keep plodding along, keeping ownership.
 

Johnfmh

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:beercheer:John, if you are right, I will buy you a beer or two. But I hope this is the last season of suffering for skiers, homeowners, businesses, and the county’s tax system. The circling wolves have never been so visible and hungry for that matter.
 

JohnL

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:beercheer:John, if you are right, I will buy you a beer or two. But I hope this is the last season of suffering for skiers, homeowners, businesses, and the county’s tax system. The circling wolves have never been so visible and hungry for that matter.

John, if you are right, I’ll buy you more than two beers. We can drink them in Cherry Bowl. :Cristmassnow::beercheer:
 
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Norsk

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On the "why are they open" question, I wonder whether it is a covenant in one of their major loans? If I was a lender to a ski area, I would make sure to include a covenant that if the ski area is not open during the heart of the winter, the loan matures immediately. I know they are delinquent on many/all of their debts, but perhaps there is one lender who they need to keep paying to avoid having the core of the resort seized?

On the global warming point, if I was an owner of ski resorts anywhere south of New York state and seriously worried about global warming, I would desperately WANT to own a property in WV. Two reasons. One, far better prospects of continuing to run a ski operation in a global warming scenario in the high WV mountains than in NC, VA, PA, etc. See yesterday's skisoutheast.com article about how the WV resorts are holding up in this warm period relative to the rest of the southeast. Two, as the urban areas become warmer, high WV would become even more attractive as a summer destination (and spring and fall). A true four-seasons opportunity, though the relative importance of the seasons may shift.
 

Laurel Hill Crazie

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.......On the global warming point, if I was an owner of ski resorts anywhere south of New York state and seriously worried about global warming, I would desperately WANT to own a property in WV. Two reasons. One, far better prospects of continuing to run a ski operation in a global warming scenario in the high WV mountains than in NC, VA, PA, etc. See yesterday's skisoutheast.com article about how the WV resorts are holding up in this warm period relative to the rest of the southeast. Two, as the urban areas become warmer, high WV would become even more attractive as a summer destination (and spring and fall). A true four-seasons opportunity, though the relative importance of the seasons may shift.

Let's hope this is not the case but if it is there will still be skeptics and less places to ski. :(

My prediction for Can-nAne Valley is yinz will all be over run with pin heads, and you know who you are. :Teleb: Chip will greet you like a grateful soul and T-line will be this for a little while longer. :eek::nono::doh::nono::eek:
 

Kemperski

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^^^^ That is not the case, in fact you are validating his argument by saying that. The author is stubbornly independent, I think he has clearly misread this situation but I know it's not nefarious.
 

Kemperski

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I have recognized that people in the valley know way more than me about the Timberline situation and have learned accordingly... and I'm sure I am more familiar with this.

You're wrong and false attacks distract

and altho Im only a messageboard poster, I've also never thought that the case with SkiDC, as with other threads I just consider that an aversion to controversy
 
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JohnL

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I'm with @Kemperski on this one. If posters start accusing other site operators of kick-backs, that will get this thread shut down in a second. Please retract those accusations so we can keep this thread going.

I'm not an official mod on this on site, but Phil has contacted me personally about this thread. I'll defer to the mods on this one.

I've been extremely critical of the owners of T-Line, but let's try to keep this fact based. (And I realize I've had some speculation here, but I try to clearly state what is my own speculation.)
 

Johnfmh

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The author of the article owns the SkiSoutheast web site and a company that installs web cams for resorts:

http://www.resortcams.com

His money, in short, comes from the industry, not skiers, locals, employees, homeowners, etc. His article is basically saying: “criticisms of resort are mostly baseless and we should all rally around the owners despite their financial woes because the alternative is a condo development with no skiing.” He attacks valid criticisms of the resort on the web and Facebook as fake news, and claims he can accurately throw a football 60 yards.;)

Timberline certainly did NOT pay SkiSoutheast to write this article—at least not directly. That’s not what I was implying. What the web site is trying to do is assure other resort owners (its true source of income) that it will rally behind them against critics on social media. If most of the criticisms are valid, as is the case here, that does no one any good and actually hurts the industry in WV. I will retract the statement in deference to this site but remain very skeptical of the misplaced motivations behind the article. The fact of the matter is that the community has supported the resort for many, many years but can no longer do so given the situation we find ourselves in this season.
 

pipestem

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How about Happy New Year y'all. Best wishes to everyone especially all the Timberline hopefuls and wishers. To that future day when the snow is deep and everyone smiles and the whales are breaching.

We two have run about the slopes,
and picked the daisies fine;
But we've wandered many a weary foot,
since auld lang syne.
 

Bluedon

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Oh Hi Oh
The author has been vacationing in Snowshoe all week. He should have taken a day and driven up 219 to TL. He could have spent a day skiing there and give an honest assessment of conditions and remove any FAKE NEWS. He should have met with some locals as well as TL owners prior to penning that article.
 

SCWVA

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Nov 13, 2018
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The author has been vacationing in Snowshoe all week. He should have taken a day and driven up 219 to TL. He could have spent a day skiing there and give an honest assessment of conditions and remove any FAKE NEWS. He should have met with some locals as well as TL owners prior to penning that article.

He was at SS and couldn't make the effort to come to the Valley before posting his article? :huh::huh:

A couple things about the article:
Why wasn't there any mention of how good the skiing is at TL and how we'll all miss skiing the pow and trees when the lifts stop spinning. Has the author ever skied at TL?

I also didn't like how the author started talking trash about the other ski websites and how big his ..........well, circulation is. I had never been on his website before, so I'm assuming he's just trolling for viewers.
 
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