Comparison Review Thumbnail Reviews from the Not-on-Mother's-Day Gathering at A-Basin

[KingGrump]

haha! There is nothing negative about it, and it was particularly funny to me when Tony said what he did, because you said the same exact thing to me when talking about skis last season. It's a noteworthy indicator. Correspondingly, Tony and I tend to like the same skis -- so apparently I need to get on that Elan.

It’s good to have a test ski buddy. I have mine, Phil. His bad ski list is my short list.

Interesting. I didn't try the 165. Did anyone besides Rachel and me get on the 155? I wonder if it might be one of those cases where they didn't scale down the flex with the length. E.g., a short 2x4 is harder to bend than a long one.

I was surprised that toke out the 155. The 158 (if available) would have been a better fit in term of flex characteristics. You are probably right about improper scaling.

I normally ride an Atomic FIS SL 158 for free skiing. The Atomic FIS SL 165 is a bit planky for me.

The Augment FIS SL 165 does not feel planky. Soft and supple. Arcs nicely. Nice smooth progressive rebound out of the turn. No sudden kick. Doesn’t have the edginess of the Atomic. Did I say smooth. It’s one of the WOW skis for me.

 

[ScotsSkier]

Its funny you should say that because I liked the AM77 for the first run or two but then felt like it wore me out. The Augment guy talked to me about it and thinks I should try the 8 flex. I think he's right. Its a good ski but at that flex, its a lot of ski for me.

Definite possibility, or perhaps go down a step in length as well as flex. When I skied the 177 Augment 77 Carbon, (flex 5 IIRC) I didn’t really notice it was a bit shorter than my preferred 180-185 for this type of ski which is unusual as normally my reaction to the 175-178 length is “ not bad but for me........ I suspect that the unique smooth ride/performance blend that Augment offers in their all mountain (and race) skis lets it ski/ feel a little longer than marked. In fact I would happily take the AM 77 in the 177 by choice.

Note this is for the AM skis. For the race skis, I use different criteria, geared around experience, performance and intended use. For ME the 188 FIS was superior to the 185 Masters ski but this would not apply across the Board. And as @KingGrump has remarked the 165 FIS slalom is a class leading ski.

 

[Tricia]

Definite possibility, or perhaps go down a step in length as well as flex. When I skied the 177 Augment 77 Carbon, (flex 5 IIRC) I didn’t really notice it was a bit shorter than my preferred 180-185 for this type of ski which is unusual as normally my reaction to the 175-178 length is “ not bad but for me........ I suspect that the unique smooth ride/performance blend that Augment offers in their all mountain (and race) skis lets it ski/ feel a little longer than marked. In fact I would happily take the AM 77 in the 177 by choice.

Note this is for the AM skis. For the race skis, I use different criteria, geared around experience, performance and intended use. For ME the 188 FIS was superior to the 185 Masters ski but this would not apply across the Board. And as @KingGrump has remarked the 165 FIS slalom is a class leading ski.

Or, I could join you for some race training and amp up my skills

 

[WadeHoliday]

Dang it, next year was supposed to be a "no new skis" challenge to myself (for no good reason).

But I find myself REALLY wanting a pair of the Cassiar 79 "trainers" in 174.

It sounds like they could be everything my real SL skis were not, for me.

Luckily, I can (maybe barely) pass the @Tony S selection criteria. Been laying railroad tracks since the late 70s, on K2 810 GS skis, no less.

You should get on it for sure, I now have a half dozen days on my "trainer", and it rocks. Big bumps, "railroad" track carves, slow motion short swing impact turns, all happy.

I actually think making clean arcs is all fine and dandy, yes, I can arc two footed carved turns, all slalom skis can too. The difference with this one is that you can change the radius easier and bend it up to varying degrees more easily at a variety of speeds and not feel like you are a passenger to the skis prefered radius, unlike many more racy slalom skis. It also is more free in transition then many slalom like skis, so the pilot can more freely choose when, where and if to lock it into it's arc.

Glad you liked it, Tony!

cheers!
W

 

[Tom K.]

You should get on it for sure, I now have a half dozen days on my "trainer", and it rocks. Big bumps, "railroad" track carves, slow motion short swing impact turns, all happy.

I actually think making clean arcs is all fine and dandy, yes, I can arc two footed carved turns, all slalom skis can too. The difference with this one is that you can change the radius easier and bend it up to varying degrees more easily at a variety of speeds and not feel like you are a passenger to the skis prefered radius, unlike many more racy slalom skis. It also is more free in transition then many slalom like skis, so the pilot can more freely choose when, where and if to lock it into it's arc.

Glad you liked it, Tony!

cheers!
W

Stop, already!!!!

Yikes, those are spendy skis (and impossible to demo in my neck of the woods).

Do pugskiers get any DPS love?

 

[Tony S]

Oh yeah: Wingman in action, courtesy of Jim Kenney:

 

[James]

change the radius easier and bend it up to varying degrees more easily at a variety of speeds and not feel like you are a passenger to the skis prefered radius, unlike many more racy slalom skis. It also is more free in transition then many slalom like skis, so the pilot can more freely choose when, where and if to lock it into it's arc.

Seems to be at odds with @Tony S 's "binary" comment of his experience. Perhaps his tune didn't allow sliding properly.

 

[ski otter 2]

What a neat, surprising bunch of skis! Thanks, @Tony S and pugski.

So, my list of DPS skis to try has grown again. And Libertys. Thank Goodness they both come to early season demos in Colorado.
At the last SIA, a pugskier recommended I try the Wingman. Guess I should have. Added to my list, sure enough.

 

[Wendy]

You should get on it for sure, I now have a half dozen days on my "trainer", and it rocks. Big bumps, "railroad" track carves, slow motion short swing impact turns, all happy.

I actually think making clean arcs is all fine and dandy, yes, I can arc two footed carved turns, all slalom skis can too. The difference with this one is that you can change the radius easier and bend it up to varying degrees more easily at a variety of speeds and not feel like you are a passenger to the skis prefered radius, unlike many more racy slalom skis. It also is more free in transition then many slalom like skis, so the pilot can more freely choose when, where and if to lock it into it's arc.

Glad you liked it, Tony!

cheers!
W

Crap. Every time I think I am succeeding in forgetting about this ski for now, I am reminded of how good it is.

 

[Tony S]

Seems to be at odds with @Tony S 's "binary" comment of his experience. Perhaps his tune didn't allow sliding properly.

Mine slid okay. Just not what I felt like it really wanted to do. Same with bumps. I guess that makes sense. The tune was fine. My binary comment was probably a bit overstated.

Phil and I actually talked about this. He speculated that since DPS designed the model to be skied short - remember that until recently the 167 was the longest length - the ski was conceivably a bit long for me in terms of what the designers were imagining. Therefore it was maybe a bit more torsionally unforgiving.

Personally I think the combination of relatively easy flex with lots of torsional rigidity is what makes it so distinctive and fun to arc turns on.

 

[Tricia]

Stop, already!!!!

Yikes, those are spendy skis (and impossible to demo in my neck of the woods).

Do pugskiers get any DPS love?

We do get @SkiEssentials love and they are a DPS dealer.

 

[aveski]

Nice reviews Tony. So what ski am I going to want to get for my return to living in Maine. Specifically for firm (aka, ice) groomers. My Liberty Variant 87's have pretty good grip, but not good enough. You know how I ski.

 

[Tony S]

Nice reviews Tony. So what ski am I going to want to get for my return to living in Maine. Specifically for firm (aka, ice) groomers. My Liberty Variant 87's have pretty good grip, but not good enough. You know how I ski.

There is a demo day at the River Thanksgiving weekend. The snow is pretty much guaranteed to be bad. We'll just go check it out.

 

[WadeHoliday]

Seems to be at odds with @Tony S 's "binary" comment of his experience. Perhaps his tune didn't allow sliding properly.

I guess I didn't read Tony's review too closely, I just got "Loved it, loved it, so so so fun." And I agreed.

compared to other fun slalomish skis I've spent a lot of time on... kastle MX 74 in 172 and Stockli laser AX, 168, I find the trainer to be as good or better off piste. Maybe I'm still infatuated, but I ski 90% of the time off piste, and have been skiing it daily in big KT bumps this spring and find the design just sweet. I even skied it back to back with the AX at the rose pugski demo down spring bumps on Golds and the trainer was more friendly, quicker and versatile there then the AX to me.

Don't want to hijack the topic from the other skis here, but I wanted to follow up on James direct thought.

Cheers!
W

 

[Olesya C]

2019-20 Elan Wingman 82 CTI 178cm
I just have never been on a ski anything like this. Home cooks: This is like moving from a Wusthof or a Henkels knife to a Japanese model. Half the weight with twice the slice. It bends easily but still grips like a bulldog. (I know that sounds like my account of the DPS above but the skis are totally different. The DPS really is binary. It's supposed to be. I had a French teacher like that in high school. You say something and she'd say it back properly. You knew what that meant, even if you didn't like it.)

The Elan doesn't correct you; it's just kind of invisible, like the jet pack on your back in that awesome dream. They should have called it the Wingsuit instead of the Wingman. It does its ski duty perfectly and lets you concentrate on skiing. Look left, go left. Astounding that a ski that can be so locked into a carved turn can also do brushy instructor turns so well. The conundrum of the Wingman is that it's very precise and yet very forgiving. Yes, there is a lot of resistance to the whole Amphibio thing. I get it. But, but, but ... I DO think that inside ski tracking was noticably better on this ski.

I have demoed the Wingman 86 CTI in 178 in somewhat challenging mixed conditions in April at Alta and I completely agree with you! I loved those very much. It was amazing how well it gripped in slick patches, but pivoted great in bumps and piles. It was just there for you no matter what! I think I am quite a bit different skier than you, heavier tall female (over 6 ft tall, 185+ pounds), with only 8 or so years of skiing experience. not super fast most of the time.

 

[aveski]

Hopefully, the Wingman will be available for a demo next fall, with firm conditions.

 

[markojp]

).

Do pugskiers get any DPS love?

I like the Wailer Alchemist 106. Nice ski. The rest? Nope. That's just me though.

 

[Tom K.]

I like the Wailer Alchemist 106. Nice ski. The rest? Nope. That's just me though.

Based on the amazing and precise reality of the interweb, we seem to have somewhat similar tastes in skis.

Have you tried the new-ish Cassiar 79?

Seems like a different breed of cat for DPS.

 

[Ken_R]

Video about the Wingman. This guy is awesome!

 

[markojp]

Based on the amazing and precise reality of the interweb, we seem to have somewhat similar tastes in skis.

Have you tried the new-ish Cassiar 79?

Seems like a different breed of cat for DPS.

I haven't.