Thoughts on (cheater) SL skis

[MBF67]

I demoed a pair of Rossi Hero Elite ST Ti's and a pair of Volkl Race tiger SL's today. I found the Hero Elites to be exciting. They were easy to get on edge and to hold them, though they did require noticeably more effort than my usual Salomon X-Drive 83s. I would also say that they could be a bit temperamental, grabbing the edge rather aggressively. On the other hand, the Race tigers were generally easier to ski, floating into the turn with less effort and moving from turn to turn more smoothly. However, they lacked the "pop" of the Rossi's.

Just wondering if this jibes with other people's experience with these skis. I suspect that the Hero Elites are a little more like their FIS cousins whereas the Volkls are more called down versions of the FIS ski, though I have never skied either of the FIS slalom skis to say for sure.

Still planning to demo the Atomic Redster S9's next week. Anyone know how these will compare with the other two. I am guessing that they will fall somewhere in between.

 

[focker]

My son races in HS on the racetiger and they took him a bit of time to get the hang of to be honest. He loves them now however and I notice a lot of beer league SL racers here in MN are on them. I have not had a chance to ski them myself yet however.

 

[whitefeathers]

What defines a "cheater " ski?

The race tigers seem to pretty popular here on the HS teams. I am using a pair that are a few years old but basically still like brand new to me. I love them. Only other race ski I've tried was a Salomon something and felt more solid and stable with the Volkl so thats what I stuck with.

 

[jzmtl]

Everybody I know who are on hero elite says they are softer than other brands, never tried them myself though.

 

[MBF67]

What defines a "cheater " ski?

The race tigers seem to pretty popular here on the HS teams. I am using a pair that are a few years old but basically still like brand new to me. I love them. Only other race ski I've tried was a Salomon something and felt more solid and stable with the Volkl so thats what I stuck with.

"Cheater skis" are race skis that are not FIS compliant (or, as hardcore racers would put it, they are carving skis that are made to look like racing skis )

Everybody I know who are on hero elite says they are softer than other brands, never tried them myself though.

Could be it was just me. Maybe I was in fact carving better with the Hero Elites and not getting on edge as much with the Volkls (though I don't think so) which made them feel softer. I should also note that the conditions were mostly hard corduroy snow for the Hero elites but things had warmed up and the snow was much softer when I got the Race Tigers on.

 

[James]

Still planning to demo the Atomic Redster S9's next week. Anyone know how these will compare with the other two. I am guessing that they will fall somewhere in between.

Nice ski. Really great mid to tail- not too stiff but lots of power if you want it. Personally, have never bothered with cheater slaloms. Fis versions make a great all around ski.

 

[Tom K.]

I find "cheater" SL skis to be a blast! They make a mere mortal feel like a real racer. Personally have never bothered with FIS versions after one quick demo. The cheater versions suit me fine.

Head SLs in my stable, but I suspect it's hard to find a bad one from any of the Big Brands.

 

[MBF67]

I haven't tried any true FIS slalom skis - I guess I'm worried they will tire me out to fast (especially if I have to ski all day with my 13 year old son). Having said that, is there really that big of a difference, and are they worth demo-ing as well?

 

[Doug Briggs]

More so than with other types of skis, tune is going to have a big effect on how this type of ski performs. When you get on the ski you like, check to see how it is tuned. The faster response of the RT could be from a .5* base bevel or the construction, or both. Once you know how it is tuned you can maintain/request it when you tune your skis.

 

[whitefeathers]

Thanks for the answer I had always wondered what people meant when they said cheater skis.
Is there a huge difference between the "cheater" and the Fis compliant skis and can it be felt when skiing?

 

[François Pugh]

"Cheater skis" are race skis that are not FIS compliant (or, as hardcore racers would put it, they are carving skis that are made to look like racing skis )


Could be it was just me. Maybe I was in fact carving better with the Hero Elites and not getting on edge as much with the Volkls (though I don't think so) which made them feel softer. I should also note that the conditions were mostly hard corduroy snow for the Hero elites but things had warmed up and the snow was much softer when I got the Race Tigers on.

My cheater sl skis are FIS complaint. Fisher WC SC from a few years back. Just a little more flexible. 165 cm 13 m. Suites my 155 lbs.

 

[James]

It's pretty difficult to demo fis skis in the US. Though this time of year there will be a demo day for race kids, so ask at a local shop.

Cheaters can have too much sidecut imo. Even the Fis versions vary from 11.5 m to 13, but don't know if it's that's really true or measuring technique differences.
With cheater gs, a sidecut of 17 in a 180ish is just too much hooking up.

 

[Tom K.]

Cheaters can have too much sidecut imo.

Interesting. By chance, I ran into a friend's two hotshot race kids yesterday and asked them about this topic. The boy basically said "they call them cheaters because we'd all race on those sidecuts if they'd let us".

But honestly, I'm not sure whether I prefer the cheater SLs because of the slightly greater sidecut or the slightly softer flex. I suspect it is the latter, since I don't ski quite as fast or aggressively as I did 30 years ago.

The flip side is that while I like a traditional feeling powder ski, they both think I'm nuts. They free ski on pow days on fat, highly rockered "clown shoes" and go about a million miles an hour.

Getting old(er) sucks.

 

[Atomicman]

It's pretty difficult to demo fis skis in the US. Though this time of year there will be a demo day for race kids, so ask at a local shop.

Cheaters can have too much sidecut imo. Even the Fis versions vary from 11.5 m to 13, but don't know if it's that's really true or measuring technique differences.
With cheater gs, a sidecut of 17 in a 180ish is just too much hooking up.

Too much hooking up for freeskiing?...........Nope!

 

[James]

By chance, I ran into a friend's two hotshot race kids yesterday and asked them about this topic. The boy basically said "they call them cheaters because we'd all race on those sidecuts if they'd let us".

Yeah, then they'd just change the courses. There isn't any sidecut minimum for slalom anyway. Those race kids are not up to speed. It's min length, 165cm, min width underfoot, >= 63mm, and max stand height, 50mm. You could ski on an old 165cm (might have to be 170 as I think they were 163cm) super sidecut Elan SCX probably.

So, in a slalom ski at least, the term "cheater" really doesn't fit. Non compliant would be a better term. Likely, the manufacturers just don't want to bother having them listed, plus it differentiates the product. Some non -FIS slaloms have been stiffer longitudinally than the FIS version.

Pg 10:
http://www.fis-ski.com/mm/Document/..._CompetitionequipmentENG1718final_Neutral.pdf

 

[Tom K.]

Too much hooking up for freeskiing?...........Nope!

I'm just quoting this because I could only "like" it once.

 

[François Pugh]

It's pretty difficult to demo fis skis in the US. Though this time of year there will be a demo day for race kids, so ask at a local shop.

Cheaters can have too much sidecut imo. Even the Fis versions vary from 11.5 m to 13, but don't know if it's that's really true or measuring technique differences.
With cheater gs, a sidecut of 17 in a 180ish is just too much hooking up.

I guess it depends on if you ski at speeds where tipping a 17 m side cut radius ski up to a big enough angle to hook up and carve a clean turn without skidding would produce too tight a turn for the speed your going.

 

[Atomicman]

I guess it depends on if you ski at speeds where tipping a 17 m side cut radius ski up to a big enough angle to hook up and carve a clean turn without skidding would produce too tight a turn for the speed your going.

Bologna!

 

[Dakine]

There you go...
I demoed some Blizzard FIS slaloms before buying my RC4 SL-SC's.
If I was racing SL I'd sure want the FIS versions but for skiing with my wife and kids or on crowded days the SC's were for me.
Warning....Skiing SL skis anything like they are supposed to be is a great way to get hit from above by and idiot.
https://forum.pugski.com/threads/race-ski-round-2-non-fis-slalom-skis.3477/#post-76834

 

[Seldomski]

I had not tried a 'cheater' SL ski until this season. Wow, are these fun! I went with the Nordica Dobermann SLR RB EVO, length 170. Turning radius was 13m. I got them because they were the last SL ski available to rent.

They made blue and green runs a lot more fun. Steeper stuff was a bit more interesting since I'm used to 180 length for stability. Great way to ski a whole day's worth of turns in a couple hours... I prefer all mountain ski for steeps and cruising a resort all day (with a ~20m radius) or if there's more than a few inches of new snow. If I was limited to 1/2 day of skiing, definitely would prefer to do that on a (cheater) SL. That or for skiing with people who stop a lot and stick to blues.

If I had a 2 ski quiver, the second set would definitely be some sort of cheater SL.