• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

john petersen

working through minutia to find the big picture!
Instructor
Joined
May 8, 2017
Posts
327
Location
Eastern
THE TALENT CODE 1170x538 with shadow.jpg

5771014.jpg

I just finished reading The Talent Code, by Dan Coyle. This is a nice, fairly easy read that challenges the widely considered notion that talent is innate and those that have it have been given a special gift, leaving the rest of us to struggle somewhat pointlessly toward different levels of skill with little hope of improving beyond "what God gave ya." The book touches on light doses of neuroscience, statistical research, kinesiology, and learning environments but does not get bogged down by them. I believe Coyle was very deliberate in doing this.

In the book, we hear terms such as "deep practice," "perfect practice makes perfect," "10,000 hours and 10 years to mastery," "hotbeds of talent," and other insightful terms that are clearly explained and quite honestly inspirational. I like the notion that skills can be acquired through determined practice, repetition, and automatization. It brings focus to why our skills through behaviors and practices and outside influences have been, are, or will be successful or not.

Coyle states that deep learning includes moments of failure. This should be embraced and worked through (guided and self) to achieve strong and lasting skill acquisition. We need to understand, though, that whatever we are working on must be repeated over and over until it becomes second nature, then we will be able to build on our new skill level, and so on and so on.

Coyle touches on new and fascinating research regarding neural pathways and how they are formed to create skill. Pathways are insulated by a chemical called myelin: the more myelin that wraps around a newly forming pathway, the better the skill retention. The more intensely you practice, the thicker the myelin. The thicker the myelin, the faster the signal can travel ....

The book is separated into parts that take us along on Coyle’s real-life investigation where he travels around the world to examine talent hotbeds. These are little areas where superstars are found in great abundance. Coyle wants to know why and shares his experiences. Social, economical, political, and inspirational formulas need to be just right for a hotbed to be created and to thrive in the long term.

In Part 1 of the book, he examines the type of deep practice required for the successful, long-lasting improvement that leads to mastery. In Part 2, he looks at the importance of igniting a deep passion for the motivational process needed to sustain useful practice methods and procedures. Part 3 discusses the role of mentors. All three parts are very intriguing and add up to a comprehensive outline for achieving greatness in any discipline.

I enjoyed and was inspired by The Talent Code. It offers nice inspirational understanding on how to achieve breakthroughs toward greater skills and success. It also gives insight to why we sometimes seem to plateau. True skill acquisition does take great energy, intense, prolonged practice, and focused determination to really build on skill. It also takes time. Ya gotta want it! For me, there were only a few minor issues with slightly obvious or contrived comparisons to prove a point, but I easily saw past them.

Thanks for reading. Please feel free to fill in any blanks or misinterpretations. Should you choose to read the book, I hope you find it very useful. It is available in print or online in a PDF version.
thanks all,

JP
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Muleski

So much better than a pro
Inactive
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
5,243
Location
North of Boston
The book was first published in 2009. I've read, and re-read it. It's interesting that since being released, so many folks either completely buy into it, or seriously refute it. I think it's much better than Outliers. Our kids, both coaches have read it, and read in in college in adolescent and sports psych courses. There is a US skier, quite successful, who's parents are huge believers in The Talent Code.

It has always hit home with me, because many of the top performers in this sport are not great natural talents, but have refined their craft over years, and years of practice. Throughout the week, often year round.

Very interesting read, agree on that.
 
Last edited:

L&AirC

PSIA Instructor and USSA Coach
Skier
Joined
Aug 29, 2017
Posts
356
Location
Southern NH
One of my favorites as well. I listen to it rather than read. I'm guessing I've listened to it three or four times now. I just listened to it a couple weeks ago and will probably do the same the week before we get on snow with the athletes.

I think two books that go well with this one are "The Power of Habit" by Charles Duhigg and "Grit" by Angela Duckworth. I just started Grit this past week for the third time. I think the three books even reference each other book in them.

My plan this season is to incorporate more of Grit in the athlete's training.
 

razie

Sir Shiftsalot
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Jan 18, 2016
Posts
1,619
Location
Ontario
Very good book.

If you want to read more of the kind, the little book of talent and
Practice Perfect 42 Rules for Getting Better at Getting Better are more specific, with lists of actionables etc.

The concept of embracing failure is an important one. We're meant to keep racers' activities at 80% success rate, not just so they don't lose interest, but also because we learn from failure. To learn from failure however, you have to stop, rethink it, do it slowly etc. You also have to know you failed, so external cues are great, on a course or tech skiing... setting up the activity so that there are sufficient and specific external cues is our mission!

"Practice on the sweet spot at the edge of ability" (from the little book of talent).

Good stuff!

An excellent other direction for you would be
changing the game and my current favourite: "Peak - How to Master Almost Anything".

"Grit" is in my mind the most important determining factor of who's going to be a great skier and who not so great.

 
Last edited:

Muleski

So much better than a pro
Inactive
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
5,243
Location
North of Boston
All good reads, I am sure. Have not read them all.

I'm curious about what ages some of you coach, if it's one gender, which one.

Also if you're coaching them weekends only, or "full time."

And for that matter, winter season only, or on snow pretty much year-round. I.e., more than the one week Hood each summer.

If you can share one or two takeaways from your favorite book or two that would great.

Thanks!
 

razie

Sir Shiftsalot
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Jan 18, 2016
Posts
1,619
Location
Ontario
I coached every age group, moving up with the growing monkeys, now U19/FIS. 2-4 days/week + occasional camp, through winter... which I understand is coming... eventually.

There's a lot of stuff to share, me blog/website is now at quite a few hundred topics.

One very important takeaway comes from one of the later books I've read, which pieced together a few things for me: create the right mental models, as detailed and perfect as possible. That's one of the keys to success.

cheers
 
Last edited:

socalgal

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Posts
1,577
I just went through a spurt of reading The Talent Code, Outliers, and A Mind for Numbers. One referenced the other and lead me down the rabbit hole. All very interesting and approachable. With Coyle's book, one of the big takeaways for me was that "deep practice includes moments of failure." I really liked the visual of working through a piece of music one measure at a time, sped up or slowed down, until it was mastered. This was relevant to me as I have started to practice the alto sax again. In terms of skiing, its going to take me quite a while to reach 10,000 hours of purposeful practice till I become an "expert". Life goals, right?
 

socalgal

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Posts
1,577
Not quite - he means a world-class expert. You can become a (what, local? :rolleyes:) expert skier with much less than 10k hours.
What if I want to be an anonymous world-class expert :P Hmm, could we quantify how many hours one would need to be a "local" expert?
 

razie

Sir Shiftsalot
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Jan 18, 2016
Posts
1,619
Location
Ontario
1259.

Anyways, whatever the number, either 1.5k or 10k, that assume you have a good, world-level coach, that actually knows what he/she's doing and is not wasting your time. And those would be hours of practice, not just skiing.

:(
yeah, I know.
 

Doby Man

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Aug 22, 2017
Posts
406
Location
Mostly New England
JP, nice encapsulation. I have a book list. I check them off once I learn that I no longer need to read them via a well done book review. “Check”

“I fear not the man who has practiced 10 000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10000 times.” ~ Bruce Lee

The way I see things is that the code to development does not lie in either success or failure but in the fertile gap that lies between. Not until a conflict of expectations arise will we have the actual data needed to make the most difficult of changes. To keep ourselves in this “gap” we must continue to push our ability envelope to be there. Success or failure alone comes without this gap. Success is not significant until it is pushed directly against failure. An example may be that super talented racer that never had any real competition in their influentially developmental years where the benefits of learning how to lose and deal with failure are building experiences. These are the kids we see drop off the map once they start losing races at the higher levels. Being “too good, too soon” without coaches that understand this dynamic, can be fatal.

The reverse of this could be not hearing from adult learners that the only reason good skiers are good skiers is because it was something they were born with and, or, just started young rather than effort and hard work. Arguably, there can be genetic advantages and youth learning benefits. But those are just early signs that your effort will be rewarded if you work hard for it and keep on working. I started racing young and have biomechanical advantages but success with ski development was never handed to me on a silver platter. I can’t count the number of days I have put in as a youth and young adult relentlessly lapping a chair with no lines on cold, grey and icy days, eating bamboo like a panda with a sore back and knees. Throw in a concussion, a broken collarbone, a severely bruised hip and 14 pair of broken goggles (bamboo/no helmet) and, I know I paid in full to be where I am. Minus the racing and injuries, I have kept up a similar and somewhat masochistic pace as much as possible between teaching, coaching and other jobs that make getting in those “payments” all the more difficult. There are many, many others who have been punching their time card for decades while the adult learner was on vacation in Hawaii drinking a mimosa, or whatever, as it were. The goal for the adult learner is to try to “create talent” for skiing with innovative training methods outside of skiing that take into account the weaknesses driven by a lack of youth, time and genetic advantage. In this regard, I agree with @razie that skiing alone for development has its limitations.
 

Started at 53

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Posts
2,129
Location
Not Ikon, UT
OK, so you guys/gals like to read books about attaining greatness. And there are some good ones listed, but the best of the bunch and the one with a step by step plan to improve is:
With Winning in Mind by Lanny Bassham

Those other books explain the nature of the nurture so to speak, and how it can happen. Lanny’s book gives you the step by step plan to actually DO IT! It is an easy 90 minute read. IF you don’t buy in to the idea, it may seam a bit hokey.

Wanna get better (at anything), buy the book.
Hint: better buy some postit notes and/or flash cards too ;)
 
Thread Starter
TS
john petersen

john petersen

working through minutia to find the big picture!
Instructor
Joined
May 8, 2017
Posts
327
Location
Eastern
Lanny Basham is one of my heros....I am a target sports instructor and use his examples of success continuously...very inspirational!

JP
 

L&AirC

PSIA Instructor and USSA Coach
Skier
Joined
Aug 29, 2017
Posts
356
Location
Southern NH
All good reads, I am sure. Have not read them all.

I'm curious about what ages some of you coach, if it's one gender, which one.

Also if you're coaching them weekends only, or "full time."

And for that matter, winter season only, or on snow pretty much year-round. I.e., more than the one week Hood each summer.

If you can share one or two takeaways from your favorite book or two that would great.

Thanks!

I coach U10s, Sat and Sun all day and only during the winter.

I've listened to so many that I tend to get the mixed up so I'm not sure I can give specific credit, but some of my favorite take aways are:

  • Embrace struggle and not being able to do something...yet.
  • Bring the focus and determination of a race to training.
  • Determination will take you farther than talent.
 

Sponsor

Staff online

Top