• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

Snowcookie

Booting up
Industry Insider
Manufacturer
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Posts
40
Location
Zurich, Switzerland
And a bigger question. When will it detach?

Great question. When the mount is applied correctly (24hrs before hitting the slope, flat surface ski, properly degreased) it's super safe. I've had the first pair of test mounting plates for two full seasons now. Having said that, the mounting plate can be removed with a flat, dull blade if necessary (for example when you rent skis).

Martin
 

Winks

AKA "Gary".
Industry Insider
SkiTalk Tester
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Posts
461
Location
CA
Hi,

We originally designed it for intermediate and advanced recreational skiers. This is where the system is now.
I don't think that technology will ever replace a ski instructor, at least I hope I won't. Snowcookie won't help a complete beginner as he/she wouldn't benefit much from advanced metrics such as ski symmetry or edge angles.

Yes, absolutely agreed on getting some competitive advantage to racers. We'd love to work with the professional skiers

Martin

Very excited about the technology you are bringing to the ski industry, can't wait to see this evolve and more ideas spawn from it!
 

Snowcookie

Booting up
Industry Insider
Manufacturer
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Posts
40
Location
Zurich, Switzerland
GNAR is not a computer game!

This actually made me think - just how much tech belongs in athletics? Pro athletes will use whatever makes them better. Recreational athletes will use whatever is fun and helpful. This sounds like a cool toy. But a competition to see who can tip their skis to the most acute angle (or something equally silly but measurable) is over the top (unless there's money in it - in which case, way cool!).

Just go ski.

Eric

Eric,

I see your point, and I completely agree with both of your statements.
1) PROs are looking for and competitive advantages. I believe that Snowcookie can deliver that already, though I'd love to build much much more.
2) Recreational skiers want to have a great time and enjoy the experience and not get lost in the technical details.
Let me share this quick story. Two seasons ago I was testing early prototypes with a group of ski instructors in Laax. At the end of the second run I noticed that guys are comparing scores written down on a napkin. The very first thing they thought of was using Snowcookie to compete with each other on the new metrics, which were previously difficult to measure -> i.e. quality of your carving.

We learned our lesson and built in quick challenges now, which you access simply by scanning a QR code in one's app.

Martin
 

Snowcookie

Booting up
Industry Insider
Manufacturer
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Posts
40
Location
Zurich, Switzerland
It's mostly just a toy for the data-inclined. (So it needs to be toy priced, not serious-tool priced.)
But the snowcookie might be useful in self-diagnosing asymmetry between left and right turns.


That's a fair point. Currently, the data presented by the system is quite complex and as you pointed out it's more oriented towards a data-inclined user.
Please take a look at the detailed individual turn analytics screen below.

I'm not sure I agree with the "toy" designation :) One way to look at it would be like a cadence and power meter sensors for a road bike.

Still, I completely agree that data without interpretation is meaningless. That's exactly what we're working on in the Snowcookie 2.0 app, which will be a part of our Kickstarter campaign next month.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_50FB3789CF61-1.jpeg
    IMG_50FB3789CF61-1.jpeg
    123.6 KB · Views: 57

Snowcookie

Booting up
Industry Insider
Manufacturer
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Posts
40
Location
Zurich, Switzerland
*perks up* Challenges?

Yup:)

We wanted to build a tool that will allow us (there are 10 of us in Snowcookie team) to compete on more than just speed, and since we're quite international we wanted to be able to challenge each other without having to be at the same slope at the same time.

For example:
- who can do a greater number of good turns
- who's got a higher carving % in a day
- who can pull more G's

etc..

bottomline line - compete on the elements of your technique and not just speed/time.

IMG_0493.PNG IMG_E7AADCF74B0A-1.jpeg
 

Winks

AKA "Gary".
Industry Insider
SkiTalk Tester
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Posts
461
Location
CA

T-Square

Terry
Admin
Moderator
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
7,559
Location
Enfield, NH
Hmmm, @Snowcookie, can you make a strap or fixture to mount the cookie on the boot? That would make it more flexible. Might have issues with what you are measuring for data. Maybe the Mark II version.
 

Noodler

Sir Turn-a-lot
Skier
Joined
Oct 4, 2017
Posts
6,314
Location
Denver, CO
It’s $350. I found that here.

https://dlmag.com/become-a-better-skier-with-snowcookie-wearables/

I’m a tech geek and understand how it will help. However, I’m not sure it’s for beginners and intermediates. I can see racers jumping in looking for that additional edge in speed.

This was a really good write-up on her first experience with the device. It looks to be quite promising and I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes from here. I also do question the single sensor on your chest. Seems like its probably a compromise to keep the costs in check.
 

Snowcookie

Booting up
Industry Insider
Manufacturer
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Posts
40
Location
Zurich, Switzerland
Hmmm, @Snowcookie, can you make a strap or fixture to mount the cookie on the boot? That would make it more flexible. Might have issues with what you are measuring for data. Maybe the Mark II version.

Hi T-Square! I'm Chris - a ski instructor in Snowcookie team.

We wanted to create a device which is easily applicable to the vast majority of today's
skis. A great benefit of it is that Snowcookie sensor is very close to what really happens
on your edges. We believe that this is the most important place to measure your skiing.
(in the future we can use it for further measurements like snow type detection or gear
wear). Another cool factor is that Snowcookie stays visible all the time instead of being
hidden under your ski pants and it really draws attention from other skiers on the slopes. ;)
 
Last edited:

Snowcookie

Booting up
Industry Insider
Manufacturer
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Posts
40
Location
Zurich, Switzerland
We'll probably be seeing a bunch of these making it to market soon. Here's one that's been out a little while. https://usa.getcarv.com/

My question about snowcookies is can only one body sensor really capture proper body alignment in let's say a carve? Can it detect a hip dump vs proper angulation/inclination ?
My guess is hip dumppers will be rewarded with a good score.

Hi Scruffy. I'm Chris, a ski instructor in Snowcookie team. Answering your question:

Snowcookie measures correlation between chest sensor and two ski sensors giving an exact angle of hip angulation ( common problem for skiers is that they don’t angulate symmetrically left vs right). Since the hip dump is a movement which often starts in subtalar joints followed by the rotation of pelvis you’d have to put another sensor on your pelvis to verify it. (and putting to much sensors on someone is pretty much killing the user experience). What Snowcookie can really measure is the skier's torso alignment with the direction of the movement of the skis. But when it comes to a score we assume it won’t be benefit to "hip dump" during turns. That's because it can generally decrease inclination of the edges, so carving would be less effective and that’s where you’ll get even less points.
 

Snowcookie

Booting up
Industry Insider
Manufacturer
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Posts
40
Location
Zurich, Switzerland
The snowcookie is just the collection layer. I don't see the data itself as being intended for direct human processing at all. This is totally an AI application.


Our most important kickstarter goal is to implement a feedback and coaching features to the new app. We understand that some of the metrics in the current version of the application are a bit too difficult to understand for a regular skier. That is why we also work on “cleaning” it after lots of discussions with skiers who’ve already tested it. The new design of the app is coming in December 2019.

But we surely see an opportunity for Snowcookie to become the next tool in ski schools to assess someone’s skiing. Actually we’re still stuck with the video analysis only, to show someone’s errors. With all the data collected from your skiing a ski instructor can brief the student with more detailed approach, showing exact differences on left vs. right turns, for example.

Chris
 

Josh Matta

Skiing the powder
Pass Pulled
Joined
Dec 21, 2015
Posts
4,123
so what parameters are good skiing according to the snow cookie team?
 

Snowcookie

Booting up
Industry Insider
Manufacturer
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Posts
40
Location
Zurich, Switzerland
so what parameters are good skiing according to the snow cookie team?

We have created a six axis measurement system. 3 of those axis are GPS related (Speed, Stamina, Intensity) and 3 are technical axis ( Turn IQ, Stance, Style). We see the picture of a skier composed of 6 of them. Naturally the two most important axis in describing your skiing are: Turn IQ and Stance. That is why we are focusing the most on those two in our feedback system.
"Turn IQ" refers to the symmetry of the edges during turns, transition times, keeping the edges stabile during whole turn and body mass distribution between inside and outside ski of the turn.
"Stance" parameters are body leaning (forward, backward), hips angulation and turning impulses (feet vs. torso).

It's just scratching the surface of the whole system, but i can say that the Snowcookie was presented to Ski Instructors from several ski associations during a Snowsports conference in Kaprun and their feedback was really encouraging.

Chris
 

Josh Matta

Skiing the powder
Pass Pulled
Joined
Dec 21, 2015
Posts
4,123
So you should be forward all the time?
 

Josh Matta

Skiing the powder
Pass Pulled
Joined
Dec 21, 2015
Posts
4,123
Thank you for that info. How long should a transtiond take?
 

Sponsor

Staff online

Top