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Ken_R

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I have no doubt skinning up is taxing which is why I haven't tried it thus far ha. I definitely want to try before I buy. I wasn't sure if I needed a whole AT setup or if I could slap some skins on what I have. Definitely getting comfortable on bumps and more comfortable in trees. No way was I going to go all out before I even know I like it. I really just want to try it. Sounds like a trip to Stowe will be in order at some point. Thanks.

I recently got into skinning and this is my experience so far:

At first I put some frame bindings on my existing powder skis, purchased some skins that were a touch less wide than the skis (so I did not have to cut them) and were long enough to be able to be adjusted to the skis (skins were about $150 for the pair). I went to an area that I knew was safe and easy and geared up, put the skins on started skinning up. Everything worked and skinning felt pretty straight forward but I quickly learned that while my regular alpine ski boots worked they were pretty cumbersome and heavy. Actually the whole setup was.

So, a week later I just went and rented some skis with pin bindings and got some boots that fit me great (even better than the Langes I had) and were compatible with both alpine and pin touring bindings (+ were much lighter and had a walk mode) and wow, the difference was just amazing. Just skinning up felt easier and more fluid. I mean, its still hard work but the setup makes a big difference.

So, again, after this experience (I actually used the rented setup for two days) I decided to get my own pair of lighter skis and pin bindings.

I have thoroughly enjoyed the setup this season. I have used it both at the resort and in the backcountry. (Boots: Atomic Hawx XTD 120, Bindings: Dynafit Radical 2.0 FT, Skis: Black Crows Navis Freebird 185cm)

The more I go out there the more I learn about and get used to the gear and techniques needed to safely travel in the backcountry (took a several day workshop too and went with much more experienced people, read and looked at videos to learn more about snow and backcountry skiing and absolutely familiarized myself with the avalanche forecasts and discussions plus maps, learning does not stop).

Ok, first off, you will spend MOST of your time going uphill by far so make sure your are comfortable going up, its not just about the downhill.

You do need to be quite proficient skiing (and skinning) difficult snow in difficult terrain so its best to really get better at a resort and also to use your new setup in a more controlled environment to get used to it.

Skiing after spending an hour or two skinning up will not feel the same as just skiing in a resort, regardless of snow. The more fit you are the better and easier it will be.

Its a lot of work both physically and mentally but worth it IMHO.
 

albertanskigirl

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If budget is a concern, I want to echo an earlier suggestion to try cross country skiing as a way to get into things. You can get a pair of light touring skis (with metal edges) and skins, as well as xc boots for a whole lot less than a backcountry set up. I find that it's a much more cost efficient way to get into this, and it really does give you an idea of the technique and physical fitness required for the endeavour. And a light xc touring set up is great to get into first early backcountry adventures. I've done some beginner safe tours here very easily on xc touring equipment with skins - and there is something to be said about starting with lighter equipment. Cross country skiing lessons also are very cost efficient, and there are plenty of beginner good day tours with outgoing into more consequential terrain.
 
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surfsnowgirl

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If budget is a concern, I want to echo an earlier suggestion to try cross country skiing as a way to get into things. You can get a pair of light touring skis (with metal edges) and skins, as well as xc boots for a whole lot less than a backcountry set up. I find that it's a much more cost efficient way to get into this, and it really does give you an idea of the technique and physical fitness required for the endeavour. And a light xc touring set up is great to get into first early backcountry adventures. I've done some beginner safe tours here very easily on xc touring equipment with skins - and there is something to be said about starting with lighter equipment. Cross country skiing lessons also are very cost efficient, and there are plenty of beginner good day tours with outgoing into more consequential terrain.

I'd say its more budget related in the sense I don't want to go nuts buying stuff and hate it. I will start off with a lesson and rentals and go from there. Maybe our next trip out your way ;)
 
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surfsnowgirl

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I recently got into skinning and this is my experience so far:

At first I put some frame bindings on my existing powder skis, purchased some skins that were a touch less wide than the skis (so I did not have to cut them) and were long enough to be able to be adjusted to the skis (skins were about $150 for the pair). I went to an area that I knew was safe and easy and geared up, put the skins on started skinning up. Everything worked and skinning felt pretty straight forward but I quickly learned that while my regular alpine ski boots worked they were pretty cumbersome and heavy. Actually the whole setup was.

So, a week later I just went and rented some skis with pin bindings and got some boots that fit me great (even better than the Langes I had) and were compatible with both alpine and pin touring bindings (+ were much lighter and had a walk mode) and wow, the difference was just amazing. Just skinning up felt easier and more fluid. I mean, its still hard work but the setup makes a big difference.

So, again, after this experience (I actually used the rented setup for two days) I decided to get my own pair of lighter skis and pin bindings.

I have thoroughly enjoyed the setup this season. I have used it both at the resort and in the backcountry. (Boots: Atomic Hawx XTD 120, Bindings: Dynafit Radical 2.0 FT, Skis: Black Crows Navis Freebird 185cm)

The more I go out there the more I learn about and get used to the gear and techniques needed to safely travel in the backcountry (took a several day workshop too and went with much more experienced people, read and looked at videos to learn more about snow and backcountry skiing and absolutely familiarized myself with the avalanche forecasts and discussions plus maps, learning does not stop).

Ok, first off, you will spend MOST of your time going uphill by far so make sure your are comfortable going up, its not just about the downhill.

You do need to be quite proficient skiing (and skinning) difficult snow in difficult terrain so its best to really get better at a resort and also to use your new setup in a more controlled environment to get used to it.

Skiing after spending an hour or two skinning up will not feel the same as just skiing in a resort, regardless of snow. The more fit you are the better and easier it will be.

Its a lot of work both physically and mentally but worth it IMHO.


Thanks for this. Skinning is very popular at the southern Vermont mountain where I teach so I've just seen a lot of it this season so I started going hmmmmmm.
 
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surfsnowgirl

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I've been doing quite a bit of uphill walking and taking spinning and yoga on the weekends as well.

It seems Magic Mountain offers the following.

INTRO TO UPHILLING CLINIC (AM)
It’s not as hard as it looks! Guests should be upper-beginner level (on-piste) skiers or riders and be moderately fit. Learn the basics about the specialized equipment used for alpine touring, technique, etiquette, safety, nutritional needs, and personal responsibility/reliability. Appropriate terrain will be selected based on conditions and the ability/fitness of the group members.

This is the area of Vermont I'm in most of the time since my friends house is down the street from Magic and I teach at Bromley so taking a lesson at Magic would be perfect.

If the lifts are spinning then I'm on them. However, I'm looking to learn how to do this so when the mountain closes I can still ski at my mountain. Bromely is mandated to close by a certain date however, I'd heard the mountain had full covered til near the end of April. I'd like to take advantage of the mountain in this scenario.

I've also been looking into AT equipment on eBay, seems you can get a setup for a decent price.

Boots are a potential concern for me since I have a problem right foot and have my bootfitter on speed dial. I suspect I'll have to get brand new boots however with my available discounts it shouldn't be too painful.

I'm in no means spending money on this until I try it but I'm just "thinking out loud" in case I decide I really dig this.
 

JFB

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So, a week later I just went and rented some skis with pin bindings and got some boots that fit me great (even better than the Langes I had) and were compatible with both alpine and pin touring bindings (+ were much lighter and had a walk mode) and wow, the difference was just amazing. Just skinning up felt easier and more fluid. I mean, its still hard work but the setup makes a big difference.

This is pretty much what you need to know about equipment - "tech" aka "2-pin" or "Dynafit-type" bindings, light boots with a serious "walk" mode and light skis (and skins). YMMV but IMO, anything else is a big mistake.
 

Jerez

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You need a binding and a boot that allows stride length, at reasonable weight.

Skinning in most alpine setups especially boots with aggressive lean = running cross country in a pencil skirt.

Skinning in alpine setups with Trekkers = running cross country in a pencil skirt with chunky stilts.

Skinning with heavy duty tele gear = running cross country in vintage tennis clothes.

:golfclap:Brilliant

Go with someone you know who does it. You're going to need some coaching/help to learn some of the finer points. Have them accompany you to the shop to get the gear, too. It's not really something you just go out and do if you don't really know anything about it.

I disagree. This is not brain surgery, unless you are going into avalanche territory in the back country which is a whole other thread. If I could figure out, you can figure it out.

I used frame bindings on my old powder skis also and it was fine to start. (see avatar) I did already have boots that are hybrid AT/Alpine with a walk mode. (Scarpa Freedom SL) I use these as my regular resort boots also.

I did it for the uphill exercise so not so concerned about the weight.

IMO, cross country skiing is totally different. Going uphill with your heel loose is a LOT different than trying to go downhill on skinny little XC skis with free heels. You could hate XC and still like skinning up on AT gear.

Renting is a good idea (I also did this first, rented AT gear and used my alpine boots and that was a BAD idea. My feet looked like steak tartar after.)

You could try Trekkers. (see quote above) These click into your normal alpine bindings and convert them - sorta - into AT gear. If worse comes to worst, you could just get a pair of those and try it. Although it will be a whole lot harder and more uncomfortable than it should be (again, see above) it will at least give you a feel for it.

On the other side of the coin, going with full on super lightweight touring gear will make going downhill in manky or sketchy snow WAY more exciting....:eek:
 

Corgski

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You won't like it.
Yup, no question. But its not about geography, you have to address the brain chemistry question first. Are you an endorphin person or an adrenaline person? Endurance people get endorphin highs that makes misery seem fun. Despite being reasonable at endurance, I have never experienced that. I suspect that if you were an endorphin person you would have known that by know and have a solid record of spending your spare time doing miserable endurance activities. Aren't you the one who skis New England on fat skis? That says hard core adrenaline seeker all the way.
Fair enough. I will admit although I've walked down Killington and mount snow before, I've never walked up them. I'll put this on my list this summer as we are always at the mountains in the off season too. SO will be thrilled as he'd love to do this.

While I'll admit that Vermont edges out NH on skiing, I have not found that much in Vermont worth walking up (unless you are an endorphin person, in which case the lack of end reward doesn't matter). May I suggest a weekend in the Whites if you want to walk up things? It may be too soon to ski Tuckerman's, but not too soon to scope it out. It's only half way up Mt Washington so not too strenuous. If you need more adrenaline, wrap up the day with some jumps by upper Ammonusic falls. There is an oversupply of rentals available, you should be able to rent a condo for a weekend for not too much.
 
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surfsnowgirl

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I would prefer to try it on somewhere familiar. I agree that people can be an endorphin and/or an adrenaline person. However, while most know which they are, I believe someone can realize they love either later in life. While I like skiing in NH, Vermont is where my heart is and where I prefer to ski. I love my main mountains (mount snow, bromley and killington) and quite honestly I can't think of anywhere else I'd rather ski or walk uphill. Magic is an awesome mountain and I'm stoked they offer an intro to uphill. I know many people who skin or otherwise walk to their favorite parts of these mountains and they come back smiling.

We will be at magic and bromley this weekend and I plan to walk to the summit of bromley.

A weekend in the white mountains does sound lovely and I'd like to try playing around there sometime. Good to know condo rentals are aplenty and I can rent skinning gear.

Uphill is something I've always wanted to try and I'm excited to be taking the steps to make that become a reality.
 
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neonorchid

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The idea of inbound skinning at a New England resort while lifts are spinning doesn't do anything for me. Sounds dangerous too if not on uphill only specific trails.:daffy:
:daffy::philgoat:

@surfsnowgirl, if you have the time come Oct, the following AMC activity would be a good place for you to begin and meet people to help you along with your journey -
Pinkham Notch / Bartlett Area Ski Trail Maintenance
Overview
Ski trails need maintenance too! Come join us for a week-end of light work on the ski trails near Pinkham Notch Visitors Center. We'll be chopping hobblebush and clearing blow downs to prepare some of our favorite back-country ski trails for the upcoming winter season. We will also work on one of the new Granite Backcountry Alliance "downhill back country" glades depending on need. We'll provide the tools. You provide the "sweat equity". This is a multi-day "event", but "day trippers" are encouraged to join in as their schedules permit. Reduced cost lodging at Joe Dodge Lodge available to those who come for the week-end. Contact the leaders for more information.

http://activities.outdoors.org/search/index.cfm/action/details/id/106640


AMC lodging optionns for New England Backcountry Skiing advenentures:

https://www.outdoors.org/lodging-camping/lodges/pinkham

https://www.outdoors.org/lodging-camping/Lodges/cardigan
 
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surfsnowgirl

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@neonorchid thanks. Yeah at this point I've not much interest in trying this when lifts are spinning. I'm more interested in this when the lifts aren't going. Bromley allows uphill traffic so it's always something to look out for which is fine. I would like to climb up trails I ski down from the chair. Not really interested in backcountry at this point.

I will see what we have going on come October, that could be fun.
 
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Corgski

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I would prefer to try it on somewhere familiar. I agree that people can be an endorphin and/or an adrenaline person. However, while most know which they are, I believe someone can realize they love either later in life. While I like skiing in NH, Vermont is where my heart is and where I prefer to ski. I love my main mountains (mount snow, bromley and killington) and quite honestly I can't think of anywhere else I'd rather ski or walk uphill. Magic is an awesome mountain and I'm stoked they offer an intro to uphill. I know many people who skin or otherwise walk to their favorite parts of these mountains and they come back smiling.

We will be at magic and bromley this weekend and I plan to walk to the summit of bromley.

A weekend in the white mountains does sound lovely and I'd like to try playing around there sometime. Good to know condo rentals are aplenty and I can rent skinning gear.

Uphill is something I've always wanted to try and I'm excited to be taking the steps to make that become a reality.
Sorry, the cynicism in my post was not meant to be too serious, more a projection of personal preferences and a lingering grudge against the old "everyone should be an endurance athlete" and "cardio" fad. People start endurance activities at all ages. Some degree of aerobic endurance activity is good, one might as well find the most fun version one can, skinning could give you that.

Just one quick historical point to explain my prejudice. Couple of decades back, aerobic endurance and flexibility was heavily pushed as the definers of athleticism. Beyond a basic level it is not, this stopped a lot of people reaching their athletic potential. Running is a known strength killer yet you can still encounter people who think something like running will benefit them in something like downhill skiing (downhill is more anaerobic endurance and strength). Do what you enjoy, train for what you enjoy. Ignore those (including me) who might push you into a different direction.

Not beating up on Vermont either, it has the premier skiing in New England.
 
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surfsnowgirl

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Sorry, the cynicism in my post was not meant to be too serious, more a projection of personal preferences and a lingering grudge against the old "everyone should be an endurance athlete" and "cardio" fad. People start endurance activities at all ages. Some degree of aerobic endurance activity is good, one might as well find the most fun version one can, skinning could give you that.

Just one quick historical point to explain my prejudice. Couple of decades back, aerobic endurance and flexibility was heavily pushed as the definers of athleticism. Beyond a basic level it is not, this stopped a lot of people reaching their athletic potential. Running is a known strength killer yet you can still encounter people who think something like running will benefit them in something like downhill skiing (downhill is more anaerobic endurance and strength). Do what you enjoy, train for what you enjoy. Ignore those (including me) who might push you into a different direction.

Not beating up on Vermont either, it has the premier skiing in New England.

I have a tendency to be like Sheldon on Big Bang and take things too literally sometimes and miss cynicism. I guess I'm a little sensitive too. All good. I do like NH and have had some fun times at Loon. I hope to expand my NH experience this coming season with trips to perhaps Gunstock and Wildcat as well.

:beercheer:
 

Mothertucker

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You may want to rent/buy some fish scales and skip the skins altogether, get a quality used plate binding and go. Minimal investment and less fiddly.
 

Lauren

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I hope to expand my NH experience this coming season with trips to perhaps Gunstock and Wildcat as well.

Easily the best two views from ski areas in New England. Gunstock over looking Winnipesaukee, and Wildcat looking at Tuckerman and Huntington Ravines.
 
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surfsnowgirl

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Easily the best two views from ski areas in New England. Gunstock over looking Winnipesaukee, and Wildcat looking at Tuckerman and Huntington Ravines.

That's awesome. I met a Level 3 tele skier at Killington last spring who gave me his card. He teaches at Gunstock so thinking I'd head over there at some point and take a tele lesson. I have no excuse to not go to Wildcat as I have a Peak Pass
 

ScottB

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SSgirl,

I have some advice to offer. I am putting together an AT setup this off season by trying to take advantage of summer sales and such. I have only bought skis so far, waiting for mid August tent sales to look for boots. Here is what I have learned from looking into it for a year or two.

To try it out, go to Bolton Valley in VT, 10 miles south of Burlington and a bit North of your usual ski destinations. They have a medium sized down hill area, a reasonable resort development with lodging, and a huge X-cross country / back country center with a huge trail network. They have a "intro to AT" class on Saturday mornings and they rent all the AT gear and cross country gear. On Sunday mornings they offer a guided tour of their back country network and choose terrain based on who's in the group that day. The prices are very reasonable and the gear is very good. I stopped there one day to scope it out and was impressed and plan to go back and do some skiing there next season. You can stay on easy xcountry trails, do the more advanced back country trails, set out on a long trail with a car waiting at a destination, or skin up the downhill area. Your choice.

I have not tried anything in the Whites, but anything by the AMC is usually very good.

I have actually never done AT, so maybe I am speaking out of turn, but my good ski buddy has been through 2 sets of gear already and I am learning from his mistakes. I am a ski race coach, so I am gear knowledgeable. I also have xcountry gear and have been doing it for years. Skinning is pretty similar to xcountry in terms of stride, fairly different in terms of traction and gear.

Definitely rent the gear to see if you will like it. I love xcountry and alpine, so I already know I will enjoy AT. (if I am in shape, that is) I don't mind working my way into shape and know how to start out small and work my way up.

Why I want to do it?? Several reasons, I have been deep into Bracket Basin at Sugarloaf and had to hike in my race boots with my skis on my shoulder. I didn't find this fun for very long and skinning would have been much better. So sidecountry will be on my agenda, depending on the area. I don't plan on skinning up the ski slopes if the lifts are running, I am too lazy for that. I like your idea of closed mtn skinning for some exercise and fun. I also will work my way up to a Tuckerman trip or Gulf of slides. I have hiked my down hill gear up to Tucks about half a dozen times. My AT buddy says skinning up will be way easier. I hope he is right. I can also see some night skinning for kicks after a few too many when staying in a slope side condo.

Well, you know how heavy down hill gear is and especially hiking up in ski boots with skis on your shoulder. Xcountry gear is the way to go for the up, my stuff is as light as sneakers, but it sucks on the way down. AT gives you the best of both worlds with some weight penalty, which you choose how heavy or light you want to go. Light approaches xcountry weight, but doesn't ski great on the way down. Some AT gear is even heavier than Alpine, and is really Alpine gear that you can lift your heel. This is called Frame bindings and works well for side country and short distances. I direct you to Blister Reviews for very good articles describing the different AT gear classes. There is also Tele and Xcountry bushwacking gear. Too much info for me.

What made sense for me is a light ski (actually towards the heavy end of AT skis) that I can use 50/50. I have a opening in my downhill quiver for a 110 ski, so I bought a 108cm Blizzard Zero G ski. It weighs 1700 grams. Downhill skis weigh 2200 grams and really lite AT skis weigh 1200 grams. My xcountry skis weigh about 200 grams. I paid $550 for the skis, new. They are one of the best downhill skiing AT skis.

Next is bindings. For me there is only one, the new Shift by Salomon. It attaches to your boot the same as a downhill binding for the down, and for the up it has pins for your toe attachment and your heel is free. This is a combo AT/downhill binding. It weighs 800 grams. Light AT bindings weigh 400 grams and frame bindings weigh 1400 grams. The light bindings don't hold you as rigid to the ski as downhill bindings, the shift will hold as well as a downhill binding. The light AT and Shifts cost around $500. Frames can be less.

So if you haven't figured it out, weight is every thing when going up hill. So now we come to boots. You need a walk mode, which lets you go back a lot more, not front ways any more. You loosen your top buckles for getting more front range of motion. Boots come in a range of weights. A downhill boot with a walk mode works if you get pin inserts for the toes. With frame bindings you don't need the pins, the pivot is in the downhill style toe. This works for your down hill boot too, so you can have only one boot. It will be at the very heavy end of the scale, but ski downhill very well. Really light AT boots suck at the down hill, not enough support to lean on them much. Almost like xcountry boots. I am shooting for the lightest boot that has good downhill skiing performance. It will weigh around 1500 grams. My Lange race boots weight probably 2500 grams. BTW, 450 grams equals 1 pound for reference. I hope to find boots at a summer sale for around $400-500.

So I will be into it for around $1500 and then $150 for the skins. Skins are custom for the ski you have. I think they come in different widths and they cut them to length for your ski length. Mohair seems to be the best. Blister reviewed skins and you can read what they have to say.

Good luck and I hope my brain dump helps. It took a while to type at least.
 
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jmeb

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Lots good in that post @ScottB .

A minor correction to "Light bindings don't hold you as rigid to the ski as downhill." This isn't strictly true. In fact the toe is far more rigid than an alpine toe. The problem is people don't really like just rigid, having some elasticity makes for more dampness and better feel.

And the ZeroG is a really light AT ski -- for its size. The 1200g things are almost into ski-mo territory. I can't think of many lighter 108mm waisted touring ski except maybe the La Sportiva vapors or nanos or what have you. As a race coach, it'll be an AT ski you really like. Incredibly traditional feel for its specs.

Skins are semi custom. I've re-used a lot of skins between various skis. I personally would steer away from the G3 skins, and opt for Black Diamond or various Euro brands. Maybe i'm not as perfect as taking care of my skins as I should be, but I've had multiple G3 skins have their glue go bad in an unacceptably short time frame. The BDs keep on tickin'. I personally think nylon skins are easier for beginners. You sacrifice a bit of glide for more grip. As you're learning to skin, set efficient skin tracks, make kick turns etc, grip is good.
 
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neonorchid

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-
What made sense for me is a light ski (actually towards the heavy end of AT skis) that I can use 50/50. I have a opening in my downhill quiver for a 110 ski, so I bought a 108cm Blizzard Zero G ski. It weighs 1700 grams. Downhill skis weigh 2200 grams and really lite AT skis weigh 1200 grams. My xcountry skis weigh about 200 grams. I paid $550 for the skis, new. They are one of the best downhill skiing AT skis.

Next is bindings. For me there is only one, the new Shift by Salomon.
-
I'm with you on the idea of a 50-50 set-up/Salomon Shift and currently have Head Kore 105, Blizzard Zero G 108 and G3 FINDr 102 on the radar.
I have yet to demo any of them and don't know enough about the three to choose between them or look elsewhere.
:huh:
 

davjr96

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If anyone is wary of the shift for any reason I highly recommend the Black Diamond Fritschi Tecton. It is still a tech binding but it has a sideways release and elasticity at the toe (something no other tech binding has) which makes it ski very well without the chattery locked out feeling of most tech bindings. Its also arguably a little safer than other tech bindings. I have a set which I have used on G3 Findr 94s and Dynafit Chugachs to ski inbounds plenty and love them.
 
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