The New Sole of Skiing?

[SBrown]

BUT, the 'latest and greatest' is not necessarily better, just different. And that is how you SELL.

Absolutely.

However, I spent the last 4 months of the season in a pair of WTR boots, and I am switching -- not full time, but for sure the majority. There are pros and cons to both ways; as Phil pointed out, for me the pluses outweigh the minuses. I imagine I'm not the only one who feels that way. Choice is not a bad thing either.

I just removed some traditional Pivot 12s from my FX85s; I'll have them in Gear Swap soon!

 

[cantunamunch]

I liked everything about the Walk-EZ except carrying them around when they weren't on the boots.

Cat Tracks are fair at best and I have to replace them at least once a season but at least I can reasonably pocket them.

Sure, they're bigger than two decks of cards, but in a sport where peeps wear Camelbaks in order to drink an extra 300ml-500ml of fluid, where peeps wear training shorts to protect their race suits, it just amazes me that carrying-when-not-in-use was the market problem.

(Yes I still have 2 pairs)

 

[cantunamunch]

I just removed some traditional Pivot 12s from my FX85s; I'll have them in Gear Swap soon!

I'm still not clear on why we can't just swap the Pivot AFDs out. If someone can explain, with pictures, it would be very helpful.

 

[crgildart]

I liked everything about the Walk-EZ except carrying them around when they weren't on the boots.

Cat Tracks are fair at best and I have to replace them at least once a season but at least I can reasonably pocket them.

The YakTrax SkiTrax product is infinantly superior to the old plastic cat tracks that are still sold. They are very similar to the vibrum duromenter, rockered, and even have a left and a right. Downside is they don't fold down quite as small as as those flimsy plastic cat tracks do. They will fit in a small pack pocket or cargo pocket of your ski pants if you don't want to leave them behind with a ski lock or bag lunch.

YakTrax give you the rocker and softer grip of Walk-EZ AND portability similar to Cat Tracks. Again, I just hang mine on a railing outside the lodge with a cable lock. Going on three years and nobody's messed with them there. Sure, you could cut the heel loop and take them but nobody messes with them.. so far..

 

[Don in Morrison]

BUT, the 'latest and greatest' is not necessarily better, just different. And that is how you SELL.

Which is why I'm usually among the last to try some new thing. I usually wait until the old one is beyond repair before buying a new one. I always ask the sales person "what does the $100 widget do that the $50 one won't do, and why is that important?" A lot of times they can't tell me. For me, the difference is rarely worth the extra $50.

 

[newfydog]

Euro tourists do more walking in their ski boots than any dozen car camping USAians.
.

They are used to walking in boots. The last trip to Europe I found so many trails dumped us into town, requiring a long walk to the tram, that I decided I would return in AT boots.

 

[bbinder]

YakTrax give you the rocker and softer grip of Walk-EZ AND portability similar to Cat Tracks. Again, I just hang mine on a railing outside the lodge with a cable lock. Going on three years and nobody's messed with them there. Sure, you could cut the heel loop and take them but nobody messes with them.. so far..

How does the sizing of th Yax Trax compare to the Cat Tracks?

 

[Lorenzzo]

YakTrax give you the rocker and softer grip of Walk-EZ AND portability similar to Cat Tracks. Again, I just hang mine on a railing outside the lodge with a cable lock. Going on three years and nobody's messed with them there. Sure, you could cut the heel loop and take them but nobody messes with them.. so far..

The reason my cat tracks need frequent replacing is the seems between the track portion of the device and the connecting strap tears after some use. How durable is the Yaktrax?

 

[crgildart]

Cat tracks are brittle plastic. Yaktrax are more durable and softer rubber like a tire or hiking boot bottom. Sizing is best.to go smaller if on the edge of two because they do stretch more then cat trax,but don't stay stretched. The material is very resilient, way better than cat tracks

 

[Philpug]

Just reading through some of the opions stated so far they have covered the full range from "I hate it" to "I love it", not surprising but very interesting. Both ends of the spectrum have thier opinions and they are very valid and for their needs make all the sense for their application. But, we are the purists, skiers. What about the person who just skis? We all have been surrounded by him or her in the lift line. The skier that is on Volkl AC30's with even older Raichle Flexons. This guy used to be a skier, now he just skis 5-8 days a season with his family or buddies. He decides his boots are about done after about 20 years and now does want new ones. He now goes in for new boots and really likes the fit of the new boot but then is told that it will not work with his skis. He has options, now along with spending $5-700 he has to spend another $7-1,000 more on new skis?

I am concerned this is a broad stroke of a solution for a 20% of a problem. The lunatic fringe here (the 10%) can and will adjust and get what they need and the entry level 10% will love this in the rental systems, the other area where the technology is directed. It is the other 80% that that are just out there trying to get down the hill, the P.W.S.'s (People Who Ski) who replace their skis once every decade and their boots once ever other decade where there will be a problem. The industry is having trouble getting on the same page, the followers here, for the most part were unaware of this, how can we expect the person who hasn't upgraded their gear since the Clinton administration be expected to know?

Is WTR/Gripsole better? Yes, it will be for the mass majority but the concern is at what cost? We need to educate the consumer and get the word out. Let's get people into this century with their gear, let's make this an industry-wide campaign and show that it makes the sport easier and more accessible. And if it gets some old antiquated gear off of the hill, that alone could be worth it.

 

[pais alto]

Maybe I missed it, but won't there be traditional alpine soles available on most boots for a long time yet? Is WTR about to take over?

I have to say that when I was shop-ratting I pretty much feared it when some guy would come in with old, outdated equipment needing repairs or updating to just a single more or less obsolete part. The look - or outraged rant - I'd get when I told them they'd be better off getting modern equipment was kind of horrible. Maybe I'm misunderstanding though.

 

[SBrown]

Maybe I missed it, but won't there be traditional alpine soles available on most boots for a long time yet? Is WTR about to take over?

I have to say that when I was shop-ratting I pretty much feared it when some guy would come in with old, outdated equipment needing repairs or updating to just a single more or less obsolete part. The look - or outraged rant - I'd get when I told them they'd be better off getting modern equipment was kind of horrible. Maybe I'm misunderstanding though.

WTR isn't close to taking over. Lange offers the option of both soles on the same boot in its XT and XC collections, and I think Salomon does in some, too -- which makes a lot more sense than requiring everyone to buy new bindings.

 

[Philpug]

Maybe I missed it, but won't there be traditional alpine soles available on most boots for a long time yet? Is WTR about to take over?

I have to say that when I was shop-ratting I pretty much feared it when some guy would come in with old, outdated equipment needing repairs or updating to just a single more or less obsolete part. The look - or outraged rant - I'd get when I told them they'd be better off getting modern equipment was kind of horrible. Maybe I'm misunderstanding though.

I don't think it will take over, there will always be square lugged race boots, just as manual transmissions will always be in race cars..oh wait.

Do I think WTR will be the new norm? I honestly do not know and I am not sure anyone does. I just think it is a concern when a technology that makes almost all the bindigs on the hill obsolete. Right now it is in it's infantcy stage, lets see how much traction it takes. I will say at this point, if it doesn't take off, like @SBrown just said, the boots that offer it, are backwards compatable, you will be able to go back to a DIN sole.

 

[pais alto]

Okay, well, I'll have a pair of Marker Lord SP bindings - compatible with just about any boots (except tele ) - for sale soon just in case anyone wants to get all WTR...or use their touring boots. Just sayin'.

 

[Don in Morrison]

Why are new boots necessary for this? Why not make some WTR retrofit bits for existing boots with replaceable toe and heel pieces? I know the idea is to get people to buy new boots, but some are still loathe to fix what ain't broke, but might be amenable to a slight upgrade. To what extent would that be possible without running into major binding compatibility issues?

 

[crgildart]

What would be revolutionary and highly practical would be for the tread to be recessed inside the boot lugs flush on the bottom traditional shape while clicked in to the bindings and would pop up and out when you flip a lever on the outside of the boot to switch to walk mode.. the softer rubber spines pop out and even are rockered with mid soled ones higher than toes and heels for walking on.. now protecting the now recessed harder plastic boot lugs that usually contact the AFD plates on the bindings..

I get that it would be disaster if the mechanism failed, especially if stuck in walk mode because the boots would not click in to the bindings.. or worse some fools or noobs would cram them in anyway totally sabotaging the release mechanisms of their bindings.

 

[cantunamunch]

Is there any chance Look will offer a WTR option on their bindings as a simple AFD change?

 

[Philpug]

Why are new boots necessary for this? Why not make some WTR retrofit bits for existing boots with replaceable toe and heel pieces? I know the idea is to get people to buy new boots, but some are still loathe to fix what ain't broke, but might be amenable to a slight upgrade. To what extent would that be possible without running into major binding compatibility issues?

The option is not specific to new boots. If you see in the OP, Lange is offereing the WTR soles as a stand alone. You will be able to get them for previous year RS/RX/XT boots that have replaceable soles. I am not sure if other manufactures will follow.

Is there any chance Look will offer a WTR option on their bindings as a simple AFD change?

The base of the new binding is not the same as the previous version, so my guess is they will not make a backwards compatable AFD.

 

[Wendy]

On the flip side ... some of us walk a lot in our boots. There is a decent amount of hike-to terrain at pretty much every place I ski, ranging from a 5-min bootpack to a 45-min trip around the backside. For me personally, walking in my traditional boots hurts my knees more than just about anything. Slipping and falling on ice or rock also hurts. I am in the process of swapping out all my bindings to the Dual Pivots, so I can use either of my boots without much ado. I can live with a little less precision on the snow, but precision isn't really my deal anyway . I give it two thumbs up.

This. Walking in my ski boots hurts my knees a lot. Just one slip the wrong way in a ski boot can cause a boot-top fracture, too. So, having soles with a binding interface that make the walking process a bit easier? I'd be all about that.

 

[Brian Finch]

This. Walking in my ski boots hurts my knees a lot. Just one slip the wrong way in a ski boot can cause a boot-top fracture, too. So, having soles with a binding interface that make the walking process a bit easier? I'd be all about that.

My take is that 90% of the time we are standing, walking, waiting, eating.... in our boots & then we do this 10% of the time-

Now for this 10% of the time, we expend tons of extra energy conforming to a boot that is simply a drag on efficiency in terms of muscular effort. My take: I going all in!! Cochise w WTR/Grip Walk compatibility & a walk mode.

I'm calling it now P.W.S. will benefit the most from this bc they dedicate time in terms of hours & not 100 day seasons to skiing. The decreased metabolic need will be surreal for downhill performance in the Joey of the Day crowd.

* that said I can't seem to figure out if the Tecnica's need new soles, how to get my Look Pivot AFDs...... yet I'm all in!!