- Joined
- Nov 12, 2015
- Posts
- 6,357
I just think of my LBS days when people would be trying to get a discount on a bike because the tires are dirty and it's "used", "You just rode it in the parking lot!".
-
For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.
The "Monique choosing a mountain bike" thread!
- Thread starter Monique
- Start date
I wasn't going to say much about this type of thing..but now that you've started..
We tried hard to not mess around with new bikes too much. It was usually a lose situation for the shop. You don't have packaging for what comes off the bike so you can't sell it at par. You make 100% of parts and 40% on what comes standard on the bike. So you're losing there as well. We didn't sell a lot of high-end stuff so you could effectively wipe out everything you make on a bike by doing a few things to it if you include shop time. If you can find a shop that does all that for you, awesome! Hang onto them like grim death! In general, I don't think it's really fair to ask for a discount AND a bunch of swap-outs and freebies. Not pointing the finger at you Monique at all..just in general, some people just push the economics and it's very hard for the shop.
I wasn't going to say much about this type of thing..but now that you've started..
I was figuring they could "borrow" tires from one of their pluses - if not, as I said, I'd be willing to invest in 2 tires to fend off a $5-10k mistake.
The owner has been wonderful so far, talking through options, even though I haven't spent a dime there since I bought the Truth.
Copied from Epic's demo thread - I just reached out to the guy in Colorado Springs who may have a Rogue 40 demo.
https://ellsworthbikes.com/collections/2017-product/products/rogue-forty?variant=42562655759
This is kind of my sticking point. I do want a bike with some modern stuff - a 1x drivetrain, through axles rather than whatever they call the gap at the bottom on the old forks. I know that I want a slacker geometry and more travel than my current XC bike.
But the question is, how much is it worth to me to get that? I don't want to "have to" buy something that costs thousands of dollars. I'd better be EXCITED about it!
I liked the Ibis Mojo 3 pretty well, but I'm not sure I felt EXCITED about it. Maybe I should have. Maybe I have unrealistic expectations of how much a bike can change my basic ability level (and especially my tortoise factor). But I remember years ago, I picked up two bikes to demo at the same time - the Truth and whatever the comparable Yeti was. I immediately loved the Truth and "meh"d the Yeti. (My buddy demoing with me had the opposite reaction, and bought the Yeti). I don't know why I am not EXCITED about a bike that rolled over so many obstacles that I'd normally bounce off of.
Perhaps my Truth is just that good after all these years, even though it's not optimal for the riding I do. I love the Dare, too, even though it's stupid overkill for what I do, and a pain to lug around. They have a new Rogue 40 ... the standover height is the same as the Mojo 3, ie, nice and low ... the main bummer is that there's no local dealer, although there's a place that does demos a couple of hours away. But it seems crazy that I could only love a brand that's commonly known as "Smellsworth." (LOL - they offer the XX1 Eagle but not the "mere" XO1 Eagle!)
https://ellsworthbikes.com/collections/2017-product/products/rogue-forty?variant=42562655759
This is kind of my sticking point. I do want a bike with some modern stuff - a 1x drivetrain, through axles rather than whatever they call the gap at the bottom on the old forks. I know that I want a slacker geometry and more travel than my current XC bike.
But the question is, how much is it worth to me to get that? I don't want to "have to" buy something that costs thousands of dollars. I'd better be EXCITED about it!
I liked the Ibis Mojo 3 pretty well, but I'm not sure I felt EXCITED about it. Maybe I should have. Maybe I have unrealistic expectations of how much a bike can change my basic ability level (and especially my tortoise factor). But I remember years ago, I picked up two bikes to demo at the same time - the Truth and whatever the comparable Yeti was. I immediately loved the Truth and "meh"d the Yeti. (My buddy demoing with me had the opposite reaction, and bought the Yeti). I don't know why I am not EXCITED about a bike that rolled over so many obstacles that I'd normally bounce off of.
Perhaps my Truth is just that good after all these years, even though it's not optimal for the riding I do. I love the Dare, too, even though it's stupid overkill for what I do, and a pain to lug around. They have a new Rogue 40 ... the standover height is the same as the Mojo 3, ie, nice and low ... the main bummer is that there's no local dealer, although there's a place that does demos a couple of hours away. But it seems crazy that I could only love a brand that's commonly known as "Smellsworth." (LOL - they offer the XX1 Eagle but not the "mere" XO1 Eagle!)
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2015
- Posts
- 6,357
How many of the bikes on your original list have you tried? There was a girl riding the Hail at our ride tonight and that looked like a really good bike. Have you tried Intense yet? No Santa Cruz on your list, 5010 or Bronson should be worth try. I know Ron is about the fat tires, but it sure felt nice being on mere 2.3s tonight!
Umm. I have tried the Mojo 3 .... *ducks* I also have a demo set up for the SB5 this weekend. That's it so far.
I poked around on the 5010, just on neighborhood sidewalks, and didn't care for it. Josh thought it might have to do with the rear suspension adjustment.
I get the feeling you're a damn good technical rider, and while I love riding over rocks - I'm not amazing at it, and I don't have the oomph to get past a lot of uphill obstacles. I was skeptical, but that fat tire made rocky sections a lot more fun. That's hard to overlook. They essentially gave me more (borrowed) technical "chops" than the last few years of riding have.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2015
- Posts
- 6,357
Seems like you may need to try a few more bikes. I think if you find the right bike you will know it.
I think you're right. It turns out I'm now arranging a demo of the Ellsworth Rogue 40 next Tuesday!
Hey all -
When I talked to the Ellsworth demo guy and expressed an interest in wider tires/rims, he suggested I'd be better off going with the new Evolution : https://ellsworthbikes.com/collections/2017-product/products/evolution-convert?variant=43544435279
It's apparently on pre-order, which does not satisfy my immediate need, but ...
Any thoughts on the geometry?
The smallest is a medium:
Head Angle (deg) 66
Seat Angle(deg) 74
Stack(mm) 609
Reach (mm) 426
Head Tube(mm) 129
Top Tube(mm) 596
Seat Tube(mm) 432
Standover (mm) 739
Front Center (mm) 754
Chainstay(mm) 436
BB Height (in) 349
Wheelbase (mm) 1190
When I talked to the Ellsworth demo guy and expressed an interest in wider tires/rims, he suggested I'd be better off going with the new Evolution : https://ellsworthbikes.com/collections/2017-product/products/evolution-convert?variant=43544435279
It's apparently on pre-order, which does not satisfy my immediate need, but ...
Any thoughts on the geometry?
The smallest is a medium:
Head Angle (deg) 66
Seat Angle(deg) 74
Stack(mm) 609
Reach (mm) 426
Head Tube(mm) 129
Top Tube(mm) 596
Seat Tube(mm) 432
Standover (mm) 739
Front Center (mm) 754
Chainstay(mm) 436
BB Height (in) 349
Wheelbase (mm) 1190
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2015
- Posts
- 6,357
IMHO - don't even look at the geometry. Just go ride it and see how it feels. I don't think having a head full of numbers helps. The you might be putting your bias of what the numbers "should mean" into your test ride. Just go ride it and see if you like it.
In this case, I may not be able to ride it. But if I can't ride it, I won't buy it. So.
Another question, then: What if they only have one size up for me to demo? That obviously changes the wheel base and the reach. Anything else I should consider? Or are they so close that if I have any issue with the medium, I should just forget about it.
(Ignoring Trek where some bikes are 27.5 only for the small, because I have already established that I don't like their standover height)
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2015
- Posts
- 6,357
You just don't want to feel the rear tire slip and go "stupid 439mm chain stays!", let the bike just be the bike. I don't see what you mean about "I may not be able to ride it". I mean sure, look at the size, but I've riden bikes that are the wrong size and been able to separate that from what I feel. I;m sure you have been on a ski and thought "this would be sweet in the next size up". You've probably also riden skis that carved great and made you say "90mm waist, really?". Just ride some bikes and be open minded.
Okay, thanks - I just haven't ridden nearly as many bikes as I've skied skis, so I don't have much context to compare.
@scott43 @epic @Ron - well, I talked to the owner, and he said he would make sure the SB5 had 2.6 front and 2.5 back - or do I have that backwards? - anyway he would set up the SB5 for me with some decently fat tires so I could get a good comparison.
I also have demos set up through their shop for a Pivot Mach 5.5 and for a Pivot 429 in the next couple of weeks. He said he's finding that long travel bikes with fat tires ride too smushy, so the 429 is something I should check out if I want the big fat tires.
He's also helping me out in looking for a buyer for the Dare.
Basically he's awesome. This is the Sports Garage in Boulder. They used to have a reputation for snobbery, but that was under the old ownership (back when I bought my Ellsworth Truth there). Although honestly I've never met a bike shop person I couldn't talk shop with forever.
I also have demos set up through their shop for a Pivot Mach 5.5 and for a Pivot 429 in the next couple of weeks. He said he's finding that long travel bikes with fat tires ride too smushy, so the 429 is something I should check out if I want the big fat tires.
He's also helping me out in looking for a buyer for the Dare.
Basically he's awesome. This is the Sports Garage in Boulder. They used to have a reputation for snobbery, but that was under the old ownership (back when I bought my Ellsworth Truth there). Although honestly I've never met a bike shop person I couldn't talk shop with forever.
2.6 or whatever means little depending on the brand. Schwalbe runs pretty true depending on the ID of the rim and Maxxis runs about .2 narrower due to the way they measure. Tire width selection is dependant on the ID of the wheel, IN GENERAL, a 30ID rim is good for tires up to 2.4/2.5 actual width and after my demos the best feeling rims were definitely 30-35 with a preference for 35's. I just liked the feel and how they handled. if the rims are under 30, then you really should stick to a 2.35 max.
GEO is important to me, it wont determine if I like a bike but its a lot like ski's, they are indicators. I loved the feel of the SB5.5 and the SB5 and Beti share the almost identical geo's. that geo was so well-balanced and easy. I love it. But you cant go by the numbers as the bike is so influenced by the wheels, tires, PSI,and of course tune of the shocks by the manufacturer. Now, Bikes with Turquoise are simply faster and better handling of course
GEO is important to me, it wont determine if I like a bike but its a lot like ski's, they are indicators. I loved the feel of the SB5.5 and the SB5 and Beti share the almost identical geo's. that geo was so well-balanced and easy. I love it. But you cant go by the numbers as the bike is so influenced by the wheels, tires, PSI,and of course tune of the shocks by the manufacturer. Now, Bikes with Turquoise are simply faster and better handling of course
I'm sure they are saying the same thing about Moniques. Pretty sure, anyway.
Oh, yeah. I guess my point is, he's willing to put fatter-than-stock tires on the bike - I offered to pay, but he waved me off - and he's choosing ones that he knows will clear but still be relatively fat. I'm happy to go with his choice, since it's his dime and he seems to know a thing or two about the bikes he carries.
Maybe "I've never met Monique when she couldn't talk forever", LOL!
Now, Bikes with Turquoise are simply faster and better handling of course
Perhaps! But I seem to be partial to black right now. Their black frame with the subtle (?) turquoise accents is quite sexy.
First demo of the Yeti SB5 Beti. The shop owner put Specialized Purgatory GRID 2Bliss 2.6 on the front and Continental Trail King 2.4s on the back. He said he'd sold out of 2.6s. He did warn me the 2.4 is pretty heavy, but bombproof. We talked about the possibility, if I bought an SB5, of putting a wheel with wider rims on the bike to allow wider tires.
First, it was way too freaking hot out. There was a bit of a breeze and it seemed like a storm would move in and cool everything down, but it didn't. I nearly died on the climbs, but I didn't.
Just like my first ride of the Mojo3, I rode Betasso - the Canyon Loop and the Benjamin Loop lollipop.
Initial observations:
(caveat: I did not ride my XC bike between the two demos to cleanse my palate)
Yeah, this thing climbs like a goat, no doubt about it. Although it did not eat up terrain features the way the Mojo3 did - presumably because the Mojo3 had much fatter tires. Pretty sure the SB5 climbs better than my old XC bike, even with bigger tires. I cleared an uphill section I don't think I've ever cleared - certainly not in the last 5 years. Come to think of it, it never felt like I was going to lift the front wheel off the ground on a climb, and I really wasn't doing any body positioning. Not once. My Truth definitely feels that way sometimes on this ride.
But I did pay for clearing that section - I got a nose bleed! That's a first.
Downhill felt similar to my old XC bike. I didn't hate it the way @Xinga did. I found myself more nervous about downhill obstacles than I had on the Mojo, although I went down them just fine. They certainly didn't "shrink" in my mind the way they had. It had the bumpity-bump feel of my old bike as I went down them, rather than the "What obstacles?" feel of the Mojo3.
On the back half of the Benjamin loop, where the Mojo3 was so much fun - the SB5 was ... fine. I don't think I was going nearly as fast and certainly didn't feel like whooping. I kept thinking maybe I was misremembering the parts of the trail, but then I got to the end of the loop without having found my ... mojo. (sorry)
Not many pedal strikes - not surprising with a higher BB than the Mojo3 + slightly shorter cranks.
The question, of course, is whether it was the Mojo3 or the 2.8s that made downhill so much fun on the old bike. And whether the Yeti would be equally fun downhill with wide rims and tires. And whether the Yeti would climb well with that wider setup.
I was nauseated most of the ride, which may have affected my confidence. The plan is to get an early start and ride Picture Rock tomorrow - a longer ride with a shallow grade and much bigger obstacles.
First, it was way too freaking hot out. There was a bit of a breeze and it seemed like a storm would move in and cool everything down, but it didn't. I nearly died on the climbs, but I didn't.
Just like my first ride of the Mojo3, I rode Betasso - the Canyon Loop and the Benjamin Loop lollipop.
Initial observations:
(caveat: I did not ride my XC bike between the two demos to cleanse my palate)
Yeah, this thing climbs like a goat, no doubt about it. Although it did not eat up terrain features the way the Mojo3 did - presumably because the Mojo3 had much fatter tires. Pretty sure the SB5 climbs better than my old XC bike, even with bigger tires. I cleared an uphill section I don't think I've ever cleared - certainly not in the last 5 years. Come to think of it, it never felt like I was going to lift the front wheel off the ground on a climb, and I really wasn't doing any body positioning. Not once. My Truth definitely feels that way sometimes on this ride.
But I did pay for clearing that section - I got a nose bleed! That's a first.
Downhill felt similar to my old XC bike. I didn't hate it the way @Xinga did. I found myself more nervous about downhill obstacles than I had on the Mojo, although I went down them just fine. They certainly didn't "shrink" in my mind the way they had. It had the bumpity-bump feel of my old bike as I went down them, rather than the "What obstacles?" feel of the Mojo3.
On the back half of the Benjamin loop, where the Mojo3 was so much fun - the SB5 was ... fine. I don't think I was going nearly as fast and certainly didn't feel like whooping. I kept thinking maybe I was misremembering the parts of the trail, but then I got to the end of the loop without having found my ... mojo. (sorry)
Not many pedal strikes - not surprising with a higher BB than the Mojo3 + slightly shorter cranks.
The question, of course, is whether it was the Mojo3 or the 2.8s that made downhill so much fun on the old bike. And whether the Yeti would be equally fun downhill with wide rims and tires. And whether the Yeti would climb well with that wider setup.
I was nauseated most of the ride, which may have affected my confidence. The plan is to get an early start and ride Picture Rock tomorrow - a longer ride with a shallow grade and much bigger obstacles.
Follow-on thought: I have a demo of a Pivot 429 with 27.5+ tires next week, and I'm verrrrry curious. In comparison to my XC bike, it is only half an inch more travel (if that), but a slacker geometry plus the give of the fat tires. I wonder if it can thread the needle of climbing and descending for me.
Sponsor
Members online
- Andy Mink
- smv
- The Retired Skier
- BLiP
- Roundturns
- badtoes
- S.H.
- skibob
- DebbieSue
- FlyingAce
- RTsucks
- TheArchitect
- Dean
- Philpug
- GB_Ski
- wooglin
- Nomax
- cosmoliu
- blackke17
- Rod9301
- my07mcx2
- bbinder
- raisingarizona
- PupManS
- Don't Skip Leg Day
- P-Ute
- Nathanvg
- MOMENTinTime
- Drahtguy Kevin
- Bozzenhagen
- mcmary
- Even_Stevens
- Rc231
- DerKommissar
- Doug Briggs
- Juliznr
- AllGoodDays
- Chewski
- Julikgf
- slidingmike
- TahoeRover
- Mike Rogers
- JibingDownhill
- Cameron
- Johnny V.
- BeiJiHu
- GregK
- John O
- jdwalk
- AUdicky